Anyone seen this?

[syncropaddy]

Errrrmmmm, Do you want sauce with that?

Taken from the BFG site ( notice the two words in brackets)...........

"In the United States and Canada, a "snowflake on a mountain" symbol means that the tire has exceeded the industry requirement for a reference (non-snow) tire".

I rang the number on the BFG site and to quote the tech person I spoke to ...

" While the BGF All Terrain tyre does perform well in winter conditions is definately something we would not promote as a proper winter tyre " She went on to say that to getting the mountain symbol does NOT involve the compound of the tyre but the design and construction of the tread. She continued by saying that the winter tyre compound is a primary component of a winter tyre and to use a proper winter tyre compound in an A/T or M/T would not work as the tyre would shread itself to bits in no time.

If you have any doubt why dont you ring 00448453661535 and ask if the BFG A/T is a winter tyre.

Incidently neither BFG or Michelin (the parent company) make a 215/75/15 winter tyre and nowhere on the BFG description of the A/T does it mention use in winter/snow but do list it as a summer off road tyre.

[KarlT]

So are we saying that the BFG AT tyres are superior winter tyres to the standard tyre, hence the 'mountain/snow' symbol?
And on top of that, in tempertures above 7* (Is that road, air or actual tyre temp?) it preforms better than a Specialized snow tyre?

If so, looks like there is only one allrounder to have.......The BGF AT,

Plus it looks f'king Awwwsomeeee Dude & lasts forever!!

[syncropaddy]

So are we saying that the BFG AT tyres are superior winter tyres to the standard tyre, hence the 'mountain/snow' symbol?
And on top of that, in tempertures above 7* (Is that road, air or actual tyre temp?) it preforms better than a Specialized snow tyre?

If so, looks like there is only one allrounder to have.......The BGF AT,

Plus it looks f'king Awwwsomeeee Dude & lasts forever!!

Emmmmm sort of .....

BFG say that while their A/T tyre is good in Winter conditions it is not a proper winter tyre. It gets its mountain/snow symbol because of its tread design which alone does not make it a proper winter tyre - it lacks a winter compound to do that - but does make it a reasonable all rounder.

Is it the best all rounder .... ???? I dont reckon so .....

[KarlT]

Hmmmmm, I thought you said the 'snow/mountain' logo was a winter performance rating.

So is it 7* Road, Air or Tyre? I guess its has to be tyre temperature which I guess would be a real advantage at setting off.
Anyone know for definate?

[jebiga41]

In 1999, The U.S. Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) and the Rubber Association of Canada (RAC) agreed on a performance based standard to identify passenger and light truck tires that attain a traction index equal to, or greater than 110 (compared to a reference tire which is rated 100) during the specified American Society for Testing and Materials traction tests on packed snow. The new standard helps ensure that drivers can easily identify tires that provide a higher level of snow traction.

A mountain/snowflake symbol branded on the tire's sidewall identifies tires that met the required performance in snow testing. The mountain/snowflake symbol is expected to be fully implemented on new tires by now, however there still may be a few winter/snow tires in the marketplace that meet the requirements but were produced in molds manufactured before the symbol was developed.

NOTE: A Highway Safety Code regulation passed September 17, 2008 for Quebec, Canada, stipulates that:

"Between 15 December to 15 March, the owner of a taxi or passenger vehicle registered in Quebec may not put the vehicle into operation unless it is equipped with tires specifically designed for winter driving, in compliance with the standards prescribed by government regulation. The prohibition also applies to any person renting out passenger vehicles not equipped with that type of tires."

From what I've seen on the net BFG also have AT's without the snowflake mountain symbol which when questioned about them stated that compounds were different thus not getting the rating. Found this

While dedicated winter/snow tires bearing the mountain/snowflake symbol are available in sizes for most passenger cars and minivans, the wide range of sizes and load ranges for tires used on crossover vehicles, sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks and full size vans encouraged Quebec to temporarily expand its definition of acceptable tires to implement this law.

Alternate tires not bearing the mountain/snowflake symbol which have one or more of the following terms branded in their tire name or tire size are temporarily acceptable: Alaska, Arctic, A/T or AT Blizzard, Ice, LT, Nordic, Snow (but not mud and snow), Stud, Ultratraction or Winter.

While the inclusion of LT in this list means that any LT-metric, Flotation LT or LT-numeric sized tire is acceptable, drivers facing challenging winter driving will be best served by selecting dedicated winter/snow tires, followed by On-/Off-Road All-Terrain or Commercial Traction tires.

Starting December 15, 2014, the Highway Safety Code regulation specifies only tires bearing the mountain/snowflake symbol will be considered acceptable winter/snow tires in Quebec.

[dirty-syncro-lover]

i must say the michelin agilis snow and ice are really good for everything handle amazing in summer but shred the rubber!
in the winter the contact patch and tread is better than the bfg AT for ice an compacted snow but i think the bfg would be better in deeper snow and in some case's would crush through the ice to get grip, the winter tyre grip's better as a compound and has more tyre on the road as the bfg has just the tread top's on the road. obviously you can run them soft and get more area! then there is the theory of having a real narrow tyre to bite in for direction/traction!

my bfg's have the ice symbol i think, and do seem quite soft.

what does the baja champ bit and the KO bit mean on the BFG AT tyre's?

[hotpod]

if you look at this page
only about 10 of the sizes out of 60 odd, say they are not rated for severe snow.
i presume that means that the others are.
thats for the all terrains tyres.

for the mud terrain tyres though they have this to say:
"While Off-Road Maximum Traction tires are branded with the M+S symbol and able to churn through deep snow, their typical oversize applications and the absence of snow-biting sipes in their large smooth lugs can challenge their on-road wintertime traction on packed snow and icy surfaces."

and my km2's only have an M+S on the side. no mountain and snowflake.
i did take them to switzerland snowboarding last year though and they were brilliant in the proper snow, but didnt feel 100% on the icy roads. still great though.
but those are going on the doka for the woods, and i will put a set of all terrains on the camper from now on. they were the best all round tyres i have ever had all things considered.

[hotpod]

having said all that, it snowed when i first built the camper, and it still had the Swedish winter road tyres if entered the country on. it was as good in the snow as the doka with MT's. surprised the hell out of me cos they looked like normal road tyres to me. i keep them on a spare set of steels just in case.

[dirty-syncro-lover]

MT ' S have hardly any rubber on the road so less contact patch an the knobbles are quite hard!

[Crankin-wagen]

Andrew, I think the best solution to this debate is a re-enactment of the original video with the refinement of

A.Syncros will be used
B. we will use BFG's instead of summer tyres versus Winter Radials (yokahama Geolanders)


That way both you and Paul can put them back in your respective trousers and not risk FROSTBITE with your pi$$in competition!


We will used my van and Paul's Camper ( similar weights) on packed road ice, and also on a bit of loose snow, you can be the Marshall and you will also be responsible for Tea and Mince Pies while we wait to have our vans pulled back out of the Ditch

All to be Video recorded with a suitable soundtrack of Festive Songs and Posted for evaluation by our esteemed comrades


ROLL ON THE SNOW

I welcome suggestions from forum members on a suitable slice of humble pie for the loooooooser! but it should be appropriate

Paul (backing Bfg's) Red corner
Andrew (backing proper job winter Radials) in the blue corner

[jebiga41]

Yep no problem would be well on for an ice test think you forgot to mention Andrews M+S Continental's which incidentally he just told me DON'T have the snowflake symbol tried to make excuses about them being too old I could bring up the set of nokian winter tyres that have been languishing in the garage plus the old 14 ex studded ones as additional controls would be interesting but don't think any severe snow or ice is forecast

[syncropaddy]

Hmmmmm, I thought you said the 'snow/mountain' logo was a winter performance rating.

So is it 7* Road, Air or Tyre? I guess its has to be tyre temperature which I guess would be a real advantage at setting off.
Anyone know for definate?

Its 7 degrees C air temperature

[syncropaddy]

Andrew, I think the best solution to this debate is a re-enactment of the original video with the refinement of

A.Syncros will be used
B. we will use BFG's instead of summer tyres versus Winter Radials (yokahama Geolanders)


That way both you and Paul can put them back in your respective trousers and not risk FROSTBITE with your pi$$in competition!


We will used my van and Paul's Camper ( similar weights) on packed road ice, and also on a bit of loose snow, you can be the Marshall and you will also be responsible for Tea and Mince Pies while we wait to have our vans pulled back out of the Ditch

All to be Video recorded with a suitable soundtrack of Festive Songs and Posted for evaluation by our esteemed comrades


ROLL ON THE SNOW

I welcome suggestions from forum members on a suitable slice of humble pie for the loooooooser! but it should be appropriate

Paul (backing Bfg's) Red corner
Andrew (backing proper job winter Radials) in the blue corner

Hopefully it will be mince pies and not easter eggs .....

[hotpod]

I hope it will be easter eggs and not mince pies?
I mean I hope it doesnt snow before I get at least one of them running again.
Its the time of year when you realise they really are worth it after all.