Upper Ball Joint spacer

[rogerg-wagon]

Well, I agee with Neil! Everyones thoughts are very interesting and I for one would never argue the validity of these statements, however the only way to enjoy life is to take a risk from time to time, as long as the risk is not totally insane I am willing to try it.
Thats what I have been doing with all my vehicles for 47 years without a disaster yet! tempting fate with that statement arent I ?, Anyhow when they are ready I want some

[syncropaddy]

You state as been an old "engineer" this is perfectly safe but then state that Simon needs liability insurnace or he could end up in trouble, make your mind up.

Anyone in this day and age needs to have product liability insurance if the make something and sell it to a third party. You'd be nuts if you didnt! Didnt SyncroPete have to fork out when one of his carriers malfunctioned?

Looking at the pics of those spacers, Id say the walls need to be a LOT thicker than what they are

[Simon Baxter]

We'll have a look see next week.
To be fair, they were made friday afternoon, first draught, then the CNC broke!
We were thinking of drilling and tapping where it come out of the top arm, and fitting a large washer over to clamp the adapter into place.
Only when you see something made can you get a proper feel for it, and yes the walls do look a little thin, but looked good on paper!
Also, the walls weren't concerning me but he amount of material at the bottom of the well was, needs beefing up, but isn't this why we make prototypes, to look and play with, to spot any flaws?
few corners I would be happier about removing.
I've not seen any of these in the flesh, never seen any on a van, just worked with what we had, a ball joint for a sample and a rough guess at how thick to make it.
I think with the thick washer over the top it is then mounted as VW intended as far as the ball joint is concerned, the extra leverage between the centre of the ball of the ball joint and the mounting face or the arm will be plenty strong enough with the clamp on the top.

I think there are more liability problems with the aftermarket upper arms than the spacer personally. Nice though they are (and Burley has asked me to distribute them in the UK for him) they are prohibitivley expensive, for the discount he is offering they don't add up financially and at the end of the day I am a business and not a charity.

I really do think that a strut brace is the way to go to get wheel alignment back into spec though, fine for a pick up as you don't really need the walk through area, but rubbish on a camper/combi/caravelle etc.
I do think that alignment problems are down to strut towers collapsing inwards, and the problem will only increases with raising suspension, over stiff springs, daft damping rates. extra heavy camper conversions and the like, and something that is only going to get worse as the van ages.

Onwards and upwards eh!

[Simon Baxter]

Neil.
The idea of the spacer negates the need of a long travel ball joint. Imagine what it is doing, moving the arm back upwards reducing the angle on the spacer, the thicker the spacer the further towards straight the ball joint becomes.
Spacer will also let you get a little more positive camber on, a problem with raised suspension is that you run out of camber adjustment ( you need it slightly positive, and usually they are at full adjustment and still have negative camber)
And yes, the spacer pulls the balljoint away from the spring.
They won't a upper arm money either!
I have product liability insurance, of course I have and if I thought they were unsafe I wouldn't sell them. because of my product liability insurance I cannot export to US/Canada as I have had to sign a disclaimer to say I won't, all down to their "Highly litigeous society" and my insurers won't cover the risk.

[andysimpson]

We were thinking of drilling and tapping where it come out of the top arm, and fitting a large washer over to clamp the adapter into place.

I suggested that to Pete a couple of years ago when he had his made, would certainly make it stronger.

[Simon Baxter]

This is why I post stuff here that I'm on with, for pointers.
I'm no engineer, just a Mechanic.
All the stuff mentioned has made sense, and as usual most of my schemes are plotted out on the shower door!
In fairness there aren't many people who I trust wholeheatedly, and who's opinions count, in my career (if you can call it that) there are few who's opinions who I truly respect, but you Mr Andrew Simpson are one of the few.
I take on board what you say, and I will talk to a real engineer, probably show him this page and let him decipher out of it what he thinks.
The top clamp was in the pipeline, I also thought a grub screw on the wheel side of the adapter into the tit of the ball joint to spread the load on the allen bolts.
Like I've said it's not until you see something in your hand that you can hold at different angles, and feel the material can you see potential problems with it.
I'm not into selling "pooh", warranty returns are very few and the stuff that has come back has hopefully been sorted out, I don't want a load of problems, basically 'cos I don't have the time to sort out the consequences!

[HarryMann]

I really do think that a strut brace is the way to go to get wheel alignment back into spec though, fine for a pick up as you don't really need the walk through area, but rubbish on a camper/combi/caravelle etc.
I do think that alignment problems are down to strut towers collapsing inwards, and the problem will only increases with raising suspension, over stiff springs, daft damping rates. extra heavy camper conversions and the like, and something that is only going to get worse as the van ages.

Have you scribed up or measured a setup to prove that something up there moves around Simon, wouldn't be too diffcult, even a blob of pasticine and a pointer would prove the point...
Then, a strut stiffener design avoiding cab protrusion could be designed, if required, but surprised if it would be

[Simon Baxter]

I think more over the age of the van Clive.
Draw a cross section, look where the forces are going and what, over time will happen to the chassis members, I'm fairly sure that they are twisting and the spring/damper mounts are getting closer together, hence not being able to set camber on so many syncros when we can get it bob on, on all 2WD vans.

[Aidan]

VW should probably have reinforced the 14" chassis the same as the 16", but for a 10 year vehicle life decided it wasn't worth the cost.
When I cut up the single cab floor and remove the seat bases I'll take a look at what's possible. I don't need my walkthrough, it's just somewhere for the bassbox now so maybe could go through with a strut brace

[Simon Baxter]

VW should probably have reinforced the 14" chassis the same as the 16", but for a 10 year vehicle life decided it wasn't worth the cost.
When I cut up the single cab floor and remove the seat bases I'll take a look at what's possible. I don't need my walkthrough, it's just somewhere for the bassbox now so maybe could go through with a strut brace

...and the handbrake lever..

[syncrodoug]

There is already a brace of sorts between the two strut turrets.

[Aidan]

...and the handbrake lever..

and I'd like to raise that too, short arms

[axeman]

see what you have started here doug. it all started of so inercently. looking forward to the results though, it's all good.

neil

[rogerg-wagon]

I,ll take 2 ball spacers,sorry ball joint spacers AND a longer strutbrace please! forgot which website I was on for a moment there

[Russel]

On 14s and 16s there are internal reinforcement braces inside the chassi along the area where the suspension mounts. I have even seen some 14s with the external plates fitted.
Russel