anyone used the rear disk kit from ultimate engineering?

[ringo]

Having driven my defender off road most weekends in 2006, i was getting fed up with the drums getting full of crud all the time. I would have loved to have got disks fitted to the rear. Dead easy to clean and less chance of picking up the crud in the first place.

I think a syncro probably has a requirement for disks on the rear if its taken off road frequently - but if the brakes a crap in the first place then maybe it needs them anyway.

What about uprated front disks? Is there any point having better front disks while still having drums?

Ringo

[vanjam]

Interesting thread, thankyou for that. My front discs are due for replacement (scraped through last mot) I'd like to put something on which would improve stopping effect and had wondered about buying some slotted discs. Can anyone comment as to likely usefulness of doing so and or best typoes/makes/suppliers of front discs. This is 1.9 w/c 1985Cheers

jim

[CovKid]

Good point on slotted discs. I must admit when I fitted brand new discs and pads, the braking was transformed. Are the slots not more about cooling though or do they actually add to braking power?

[Mr Bean]

Good point on slotted discs. I must admit when I fitted brand new discs and pads, the braking was transformed. Are the slots not more about cooling though or do they actually add to braking power?

Or are you talking about vented disks which look like two disks jointed togeter by little ribs?

[Simon Baxter]

My rear drums have all new components fitted by the army in Finland, and the components are all passivate yellow, I have not had to adjust them in the 2 1/4 years. The hand brake will hold her anywhere.

I d think that rear discs look really nice, especially with alloys, but you cant see them on mine anyway, so I will stick with drums.

CJ has had a couple of syncros with ABS, dont know what he thought of them.

How many clicks is your handbrake on?
I would be interested to see the only working adjusters in the UK!!

[slim_adi]

Good point on slotted discs. I must admit when I fitted brand new discs and pads, the braking was transformed. Are the slots not more about cooling though or do they actually add to braking power?

anything which helps cool the brakes also aids braking power - hot brakes lead to brake fade - the slots (and cross drilling) also help to de-glaze the brake pads also aiding braking power

[Simon Baxter]

....and let the gas out that is created when the linings get hot...

[CovKid]

All worthwhile additions where you regularly need to stop fast. I guess in the end it depends what you do with your T25, as well as the way you drive. I've certainly had to brake exceedingly hard a couple of times since I've owned mine but allowing for the weight of the vehicle, I'm not sure that stopping quicker would not have been undermined by all the other laws of physics, like finding the contents of your cupboards down the back of your neck

I always think an airbag or two would be no bad thing. Anyone ever fitted a more modern wheel with one in?

[vanjam]

I think that the principle of braking is that the kinetic energy of the van is converted to heat energy as the pads are applied to the disks. The faster that the heat energy can be dissipated , the quicker we stop. Hence a slotted disc should dissipate more heat more quickly as the disk has a larger surface area (by virtue of its slots) and therefore cools more quickly. Having said that. the margins of difference may be insignificant. I suspect that my disks are the originals and look forward to the effect of new ones that you describe. But if anyone has had an orgasmic braking experience with a specialist disk , please let me know

[HarryMann]

I'm sick of adjusting the drums all the time.

Hear, hear!

To put together a few things mentioned above:

Weight distribution can tend to rearwards overall

Larger wheels and tyres increase wheel angular momentum and increase the lever arm of the vehicle over the brake - quite a big effect (mainly syncros)

Anywhere near 2.5 tons, standard brakes have to be perfect to be adequate.

Maintenance-wise, discs are like gas turbines compared to piston engines - in another league. Off-road doubly so!

Syncro-16s have bigger brakes all-round - there's a message there!

Fronts ideally bigger if rear discs fitted

Have seen similar size and weight vehicles with less good brakes as standard so its not just a VW thing.

Perhaps VW fit a slightly smaller servo than others would which makes them feel a bit 'heavy'?

Heavy or fast with larger wheels == an all-round brake upgrade?

I'd like to but can't afford it yet, so also try my best to keep good distances and don't expect too much from them, but they do perform when asked.
When loaded well over 2.5 tons with a ton bag of sand in the back, they don't.

Horses, courses and ££££

[..lee..]

you dont need bigger brakes to have better brakes although it does help. what you need is better friction. generally, and this is the case with my 16" the brakes are good when cold but they do seem to fade on big fast down hills and when fully loaded and they get to a temperature that friction is reduced. fade.

if i was looking to improve my brakes the first thing i`d look at would be balance.then air flow over the brakes, lining compound for pads and shoes and a better brake fluid.

saying that if different compound pads and shoes aren`t available then that throws a spanner in the works.

mintex do lots of different compounds for fast road and motorsport.

[andysimpson]

you dont need bigger brakes to have better brakes although it does help. what you need is better friction. generally, and this is the case with my 16" the brakes are good when cold but they do seem to fade on big fast down hills and when fully loaded and they get to a temperature that friction is reduced. fade.

if i was looking to improve my brakes the first thing i`d look at would be balance.then air flow over the brakes, lining compound for pads and shoes and a better brake fluid.

saying that if different compound pads and shoes aren`t available then that throws a spanner in the works.

mintex do lots of different compounds for fast road and motorsport.

Geniune pads work best but the brakes simply are not big enough for syncro's 16" brakes are only slightly bigger. Drilled discs did improve my standard brakes but were still not what i call acceptable.

[HarryMann]

Yes Andy, and harder pads have their downsides when not warmed up...

I doubt cooling can be increased radically or particularly easily, look at brakes on modern high performance saloons that don't weigh 2 tons or more... they are quite BIG...

Early discs were a joke, totally understimated size required evn on small cars like Minis...

2 examples:

997 Mini Cooper discs (the first on a Mini) - lethal, penny sized pads , how they were ever certifiated is beyond me, nearly killed me despite being given prior warning!

Alfa Romeo Sport, same era, circa mid/late 60's - Mechanic prepared one of these for owner doing an Oop and Over the Alps rally back to factory this summer. Refurbed all brakes, tolf the owner 2 things..

1) Get them bedded in well before you leave, progressively heating them up
2) Be well aware they are #early' discs and seriously undersized, even for this little light sports car

What happened?

Owner and ladyfriend, luggage on top and in boot, down the twisty Alpine hauirpins other side of Mont Blanc (original route), down and down and then....

Ahhhh! no brakes, smash, through a wooden barrier and dropped all of???

6 feet! Write-off !

Next corner and every altenate corner, drop was over 800 feet... lucky, lucky lucky but no classic car upon return.

He was 'told' they would fade and didn't really know what that meant in practice....

Moral.. size does matters!

PS. Never been much impressed with 'drilled' discs, poss. marginal improvement in wet and exteremely marginal fade improvement. Downisde > distortion when red hot.

[HarryMann]

Yes Andy, and harder pads have their downsides when not warmed up...

I doubt cooling can be increased radically or particularly easily, look at brakes on modern high performance saloons that don't weigh 2 tons or more... they are quite BIG...

Early discs were a joke, totally understimated size required even on small cars like Minis...

2 examples:

997 Mini Cooper discs (the first on a Mini) - lethal, penny sized pads , how they were ever certificated is beyond me, nearly killed me despite being given prior warning! Original drums were better, esp. Minifin drums.

Alfa Romeo Sport, same era, circa mid/late 60's - Mechanic prepared one of these for owner doing an Oop and Over the Alps rally back to factory this summer. Refurbed all brakes, told the owner 2 things when he collected the car.

1) Get them bedded in well before you leave, progressively heating them up
2) Be well aware they are 'early' discs and seriously undersized, even for this little light sports car. Take care...

What happened?

Owner and ladyfriend, luggage on top and in boot, down the twisty Alpine hauirpins other side of Mont Blanc (original route), down and down and then....

Ahhhh! no brakes, smash, through a wooden barrier and dropped all of 6 feet! Write-off !

Next corner and every alternate corner, drop was over 800 feet... lucky, lucky lucky but no classic car upon return.

He was 'told' they would fade and didn't really know what that meant in practice....

Moral.. size does matters!

PS. Never been much impressed with 'drilled' discs, poss. marginal improvement in wet and exteremely marginal fade improvement. Downside > more likely to distort when overheated?

[andysimpson]

PS. Never been much impressed with 'drilled' discs, poss. marginal improvement in wet and exteremely marginal fade improvement. Downside > more likely to distort when overheated?

I have never found them better when wet but do find they make a big difference with fade, downside is not good for a syncro. I have drilled the discs on most vehicles i have had and never had problems. Grooved discs have a very bad reputation for distortion, most car makers choose drilled rather than grooved.