Club 80-90 Forums

CovKid wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-RzcsdFoRQ

Just do that but don't run motor more than a second. If you ran it as long as he does, you'll wreck it.

Thanks mate, good video.

When the starter is pulled off the van I'll try to test the solenoid only, so I'm not spinning up an unsupported starter.

...BUT...

I have continuity between the spade terminal (trigger) and starter body (earth)

So when I connect POS 12v to the spade and NEG 12v to the starter body - which should CLOSE the solenoid - I'll just get crackle & flash and it's not gonna be pretty...

You won't know unless you try

whilst I am trying to sort out this starter issue, failure ( or at least one) seem to be in battery cable ? as put on fully charged battery and smoke came up from under drivers seat..Advise anyone with with similar problems to check for cable failures where ever the battery cable runs through body work, now in process of changing whole starter cable, there is a very good post for reference to this already listed.... look up Re: Replacing Starter Cable - Trouble routing over fuel tank

https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/VW ... ain_cables" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And for neatening up connections to battery (fore and aft) https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/VW ... ry_to_dash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spot on CovKid.....

Thats where you went wrong. Not that I've tried it but apparently after 10 mins its quite pleasant.

Shes now starting...... even though not perfect with a slow turn over..... still need to get leads (battery/ignitor) fully replaced but its going .... again new connectors and even more work on the earths....

Its astonishing how badly cables corrode over time. Its also possible to get short sections of cable (sometimes hidden) that build up resistance which is why often it better to start from scratch and run new lines with properly terminated ends. I went overkill (possibly) but the more you can do to limit voltage drop and hotspots, the better. Get a strong skeleton in for main cables and every electrical upgrade you make after that realises its full potential - including headlights.

The slow turning will probably improve if you pop end off starter and clean the commutator - chances are its black.

hi ya, yeah ! these littlest of things, Shes running enough to have MOT done now ! , but going to need a patch of welding to seal up rear trailing arm, so shes not back until next friday...

baring in mind your last tip !! always gladly accepted is it possible that the new bush in the bell-housing has got clogged up with dirty old grease too and when the starter motor engages the contact is not that great ? It is a new starter motor in there and new bush....

Nah, if you have a new bush and soaked it in oil prior to fitting, I think you can rule that out. For a starter to spin well it needs good brushes, a clean commutator, braided wire in good order (outside and inside), a good earth and a good supply line which includes the path through the solenoid. The windings can break down but must admit I've yet to encounter a starter where that has happened. Its nearly always grime and bad connections.

As it happens, my old starter (which I stripped down, cleaned and replaced the bushes) is much better than the one I bought from GSF last year. Makes a good spare. Never throw a starter away without at least attempting a good clean.

Brushes are cheap. Solenoid about £30. If bearings shot, generally better to get a refurbed or good S/H one.

CovKid wrote:Might as well use Tarot cards for all the use that would have done. However, I guess its possible the engine may be too tight or badly timed to turn over on the starter. Would like to see pics of connectors on starter though. Sometimes a combination of minor faults creates one big one.

Mmmm - this is interesting...

We have had a slow starter issue for a while now - sometimes it starts fine (although never what I would call a fast free spinning sounding starter).
I had previously replaced the original starter with one from JK (Hella model) and did the bush at the same time. Done probably 10k miles before same slow starter problem again.
I replaced main cable last weekend hoping it was that and whilst a tad better, still same slow starter. (oh well that's a job wont need to do again for a while hopefully).
Previously we had rebuilt the engine and this problem seemed to get worse after this. So how would we check for engine being too tight and what would cause this? If I can turn engine over by using a socket on the timing pulley, does that mean it is not too tight? How much effort is considered ok?
Next problem could be timing. I have a timing light so might check that again, but why does timing affect the starter? Thought it would turn over at right speed but just not fire as spark is at the wrong point?
Depending on what you come back with, might look at changing the bush again as cheap fix and the taking starter apart to see if black or brushes worn...
Many thanks,
Chris

Hard to suggest anything further without being there although I'll wager that the commutator is black if the starter doesn't spin quickly. Cleaned, it'll probably whizz over again but like you say, may just return again. Did you soak the starter bush before fitting?

I've not been there yet , but apparently in Ipswich , not so far from me there is a place that does full recondition of starter motor, so will get my old one fully reconded.. I think that will also be better than the new one in there now! Welding patch to trailing arm, so hoping to get van back on Friday complete with new MOT

CovKid wrote:Hard to suggest anything further without being there although I'll wager that the commutator is black if the starter doesn't spin quickly. Cleaned, it'll probably whizz over again but like you say, may just return again. Did you soak the starter bush before fitting?

Thanks for this. Pretty sure I did soak the bush in oil as I would have checked on here before I fitted it, but it was a few years ago and I've been to bed since then!

If the commutator is black, do I just sand it with some wet & dry? If so, any particular grade?

I'm more interested in whether the engine is tight tbh. Once it is running, it ticks over fine so does that rule this out? How can I test? I can turn it over with a socket on the timing pulley but what is definition of tight?
I am also going to go back over the timing as when I did set it on our '71 Beetle recently, this did solve a slow starter problem and I seem to remember when I set it on the T25 I couldn't get it to run right using the recommended timing marks so got it so it was running and sounded about right by ear and left it at that. I will also check the tappet clearances.

Any help here greatly appreciated as ever...

Thanks,

Chris