WBXlog

[itchyfeet]

Same test on the DG tonight, same gauge ran at fast idle for about 20 mins until thermostat was fully open switched it off, same thermocouple down oil filler 95 deg C same as DJ

Waited until dropped to 80 deg C and started, revved to 2000rpm DG has 3.5 bar where DJ has 2.5bar

DG was a VW recon so I suppose it's possible crank got a reground to better tolerances than origional.

one of the reasons I'm not going to strip it is because I don't know if this is Standard main bearings over size ( blue are NLA) or because it's big end journals were under size.

It seems to me that oil has to pass through main bearings to get to big end so main bearings oversize would have a bigger affect on pressure loss but it's just a guess, I suspect they are both partly to blame.

looking back at my notes

Big ends VW spec is 55mm - 0.004 to - 0.017

I have - 0.013 to - 0.023
so they are not 0.02 under minimum they are 0.005 under minimum worst case, but perhaps minimum spec is there for a reason.

[what2do]

Marco replied with the following;

He did the right thing using no gasket on the oil pump, I use 30mm pumps in all my builds, you must blueprint the pump housing to the case to make sure the holes are the same size and line up, also the hole in the WBX case for the pump are larger than the T1 bug case that all the pumps are made for ,so different pump manufacturers fit tighter than others, this is a problem as the pump will suck up air and also pump oil around the housing and into the cam gear area.
One other problem is the pressure relief valve spring can get week and the sealing area where the valve seats in the case can get worn and not seal 100% and you will notice it more on idle.
Like · Reply · 5 hrs

[itchyfeet]

Thanks Mitch
I have head that from Marco before.
Pumps are the same brand for both cases and both new.
both had a little sealant around the inlet/outlet holes and case
spring on relief valve is new as is valve on both
same oil, filter, oil and new oil cooler on both same brand.

Still no comment on crank big end tolerances affecing pressure and Standard bearings with blue crank?

Another possability is that this is a high mileage case and tappet bores are worn, no fix for that.

[ajsimmo]

Cam follower bore sleeves, 022109350. Not cheap or easy to do, though. Might as well find a better case.

Sent from my B1-830 using Tapatalk

[what2do]

Cam follower bore sleeves, 022109350. Not cheap or easy to do, though. Might as well find a better case.

Sent from my B1-830 using Tapatalk

Hahaha, that doesn't mean to say he won't have a go...

[what2do]

Marco's reply to your query about bearings:

excepted range of the main bearings is greater than the big end bearings because the big end is doing alot of work so the tolerance must be tighter, but i dont see this being his main problem.

[itchyfeet]

Worth trying a 30mm pump if Marco thinks that will help I'm sure he is right, one on order
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC11515 ... k-30mm-71/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

while you are on a roll can you ask about standard conrod bolts in place of stretch on 2.1s?

You have almost tempted me with facebook

cheers

[what2do]

Worth trying a 30mm pump if Marco thinks that will help I'm sure he is right, one on order
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC11515 ... k-30mm-71/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

while you are on a roll can you ask about standard conrod bolts in place of stretch on 2.1s?

You have almost tempted me with facebook

cheers

I've already pasted his reply about the Conrod bolts via pm. Do you want to stroke your hair whilst I read the notes to you???

[ajsimmo]

while you are on a roll can you ask about standard conrod bolts in place of stretch on 2.1s?

I've just had that very conversation with him.
He seemed to think 13 years and 156,000 miles was an unacceptably premature failure for stretch bolts (although it's just one instance, and I'm not sure how you can be certain it wasn't over-revved, overheated or some other trauma at some time in its life). At that rate, we'll be a long time proving the type3 bolts are a significant improvement...

And another thing... What about all the original VW built 150k+ miler engines that haven't thrown a rod bolt, and are still going? No doubt time for a rebuild, and new bolts in the process of course, but there are many thousands that haven't failed...yet.

[itchyfeet]

Sorry didn'd understand, who had a failure with 13 years and 156,000 miles?

My question is do I have to shell out 100 quid + on a set of NOS rods and stretch bolts for a 2.1 or can I just fit standard non stretch botlts in a 2.1?

a bit of bearing clearance chat here too
https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=157394" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ajsimmo]

Sorry didn'd understand, who had a failure with 13 years and 156,000 miles?

My question is do I have to shell out 100 quid + on a set of NOS rods and stretch bolts for a 2.1 or can I just fit standard non stretch botlts in a 2.1?

a bit of bearing clearance chat here too
https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=157394" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marco said on FB that his customer had his engine throw a rod at that age/mileage, which is why Marco now swaps the stretch bolts in NOS rods for non-stretch.
So yes, you can (as I have in the past without issue) fit non-stretch in existing rods.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[itchyfeet]

Excellent thanks Andrew

Sorry not on facebook but It's very tempting for that info alone.

When I fitted my NOS rods they bolts were quite tight from the factory, I assume bolted up tight for machining.
so you also could have a situation where they were over stressed in the maching process.

[what2do]

Excellent thanks Andrew

Sorry not on facebook but It's very tempting for that info alone.

When I fitted my NOS rods they bolts were quite tight from the factory, I assume bolted up tight for machining.
so you also could have a situation where they were over stressed in the maching process.

I've tried several times to pm you the comments that Andrew is talking about but for some odd reason, it just won't paste. I'll try something different.

[itchyfeet]

I'm going to go over to the dark side...next week, wish me luck

[what2do]

Marco Mansi Andrew Simmons the stretch bolts are known to let go in the 2.1 thats why I change them, simple really. I had one rebuild that went 13years and 156,000 miles, it was still running like clockwork until that day the owner phoned me and said theres a hole in the top of my case and oil everywhere, the owner said he was on the motorway and there was a slight nocking sound and then a big bang, when I tore the motor apart the rod bolts all stretched, so no more stretch bolts in my motors.