Ohhh I give up!!! 2.1 DJ nonstarter.

[KarlT]

I just set timing by notch in dizzy, as I can't get it to run.
I've switched everything ignition wise between my doka & checked wiring (doka run)....All seemed fine, although to be fair I could easily be missing something.
Spark seemed okay, I wouldn't say lightning blue, I may double check again.

Had alook at the other injectors & although spray wasn't perfect cone, it did have a cone shape & I'm not sure its enough not to start (or even attempt to start)

So if i'm ruling out ignition & ruling out petrol (still to double check pressure), that only leaves air, how on earth do you test/check that???

Sorry Ian, I've no idea what a SA Motronic is!

[Aidan]

Sorry Ian, I've no idea what a SA Motronic is!

and neither does anyone else outside VWSA it seems

[..lee..]

ok.
you need a spark " a good strong one " and at the right time. you should be able to set the engine up to 8 or 10 degrees btdc " cant remember static timing now but should start about there " with spark tester on cyl` one loosen dizzy and with ign on rotate back and forth till you get spark visual on tester. static timing about right now.

disconnect all fuel injection "pooh" " relay " and use fresh fuel in a plant sprayer. or easy start as long as you now how to use it and squirt it in to the open inlet manifold it should fire. you then know ign side is ok.

trouble shooting the fuel side is lots more involved. injectors sound u/s but dont discount bad fuel either it`s cought a lot of folks out myselft included.

also dont forget basics like compression and valve clearences.

[silverbullet]

I'll second Lee's comment on fresh fuel. Unleaded goes off really fast, forms a horrid varnish residue that clags up everything. Not like old 4 or 5 star leaded that would keep for months going on years!

Sorry Ian, I've no idea what a SA Motronic is!

and neither does anyone else outside VWSA it seems

Ain't that the truth

[KarlT]

Okay, Homemade fuel pressure gauge didn't work.
Switched ECU out again into my doka, fired up fine.

Just thinking back, talking out loud......
it has fired up & run, so can't be mechanical can it (got good compression)? Even if one valve was dodgy engine would want to try & run.
There was something amiss in clutch, sounded noisy. But still worked.
All ignition parts have been changed, connectors look good.
Is injecting petrol (not nice cone/spray on two but other two okay). £10 of new petrol about 6weeks ago. Again It did run (poorly).
Getting spark to plug. Need to double/triple check type/colour of spark but seemed reasonable.

It must be loom. Once or twice connection made, fired up. Me correcting messing around with it now won't connect.
Engine is set-up as for timing, vacums blocked, idle stab disconnected, connectors joined.
What parts of loom are required to start???

[Aidan]

ecu is looking for a signal from idle switch on throttle body, hall generator, temp 1 and temp 2 senders and from AFM, it'll start without afm plugged in (but will die as soon as you rev it) so that rules out AFM and temp 1 so that leaves just hall and temp 2 and idle switch, idle switch isn't required as it's bypassed for setting idle and engine will start then so basically temp 2 and hall generator, but you disconnect temp 2 to time an MV so will run without that so basically Hall sender ie what speed is the engine spinning at

oh and one more thing the ecu gets a signal to say this is start up (ie please set fuel and timing for starting at the temperature we are at) - comes from ignition switch in starter position same as trigger to starter motor

[KarlT]

Thanks Aidan, so very little really. I've changed Hall twice, checked resistance between Hall & dizzy.

Father-in-law popped in, so got him (grumbling about rusty old bangers!) to turn it over while I check spark for the third time. Nice bright spark when plug held against engine.

Just a thought, Is it possible for timing notch on pulley to be out. Reason I ask is engine appears to of been built up by garage that didn't agree with idle stab unit, know how to connect vacum pipes & no earth. Engine is fitted with PowerSteering pulley. Is it possible not to line up with the dizzy notch for number one cylinder?

Grasping at straws.

[silverbullet]

Knackered ignition switch maybe? Worth swapping a known good one for the few minutes spent to eliminate it.

Anyone else want to join the straw-clutching club?

[Aidan]

if it's turning over and sparking then I'd say it's fuel or timing
it shouldn't be possible to fit the pulley wrong as there should be a woodruff key in there, ps pulleys are fitted bloody tight so not easy to get off to swap on a known standard one if ps not required
You can check the tdc position with a rod in the spark plug hole and the rocker cover off to double check which stroke is which, it should be #1tdc compression ie the one after the inlet port closed

if it wrong then you can remove the dizzy and dizzy drive (carefully - read the procedure) and then slip it back in in the correct position

[KarlT]

Thanks for thoughts chaps.
Took rocker cover off & watched (well, looked remembered position of tappets, clambered up, turned engine, clambered down, tried to see what looked different! ) Hard to tell (hydro tappets) but looked right & as van drove before I'm ruling timing out.
I'm agreeing with Aidan, that must leave fuel. Will try & borrow a proper gauge & send injectors off (as I'm not happy with two anyway) for refurb. At least I've got a plan, which feels better already!!

[KarlT]

Errrmmmm, how do I say this.......

I learnt that a 2.1 DJ needs petrol.

The chances are incredible, but it lives.

Speaking to a mate mechanic, told him the injectors were injecting & there was a spark & the compression was right but it wouldn't start. He reckoned, as it'd been stood, that the old petrol was worth draining & changing first..... Another plan!!

20ltr jerry can bought, tank drained (hardly any came out!) New petrol added, it started.
Tick-over revs are high, but its drives much better than it ever has!



Thanks to everyone for their ideas. On to the next problem with it now.............

[kevtherev]

I think the next problem is the owner ... A crash course in spot the bleedin' obvious is in order

we can't see the fuel gauge from here

[KarlT]

Doesn't work even if you could!

What's the chances of running out of fuel after pressure testing & injector spray checking?

[KarlT]

Thinking about it, it must of been bad/old fuel. There was fuel injecting...saw it (several times ) & could smell it at exhaust. And it did not even want to start.

Lesson learned, cheers to all (& my mechanic mate!!! )

[Ian Hulley]

And the award for advanced muppetry goes to ....