Club 80-90 Forums

syncropaddy wrote:

ninja.turtle007 wrote:What it is worth and how much it will sell for are two completely different things.

I disagree ..... its worth what you can sell it for and not a penny more!

I disagree.. If am shrewd enough to buy something for say £1000 and I think it's worth £1500 but two days later I sell it for £1800. It doesn't mean it was worth £1800!

I spend a bit more for condition of the bodywork. Ideally I look for unrestored excellent condition bodywork. I have had a few restored vans and no matter how much effort you put into eliminating the rust it comes back. A good unrestored van lasts longer as long as it is looked after.

Well said, Rob

ninja.turtle007 wrote:

syncropaddy wrote:

ninja.turtle007 wrote:What it is worth and how much it will sell for are two completely different things.

I disagree ..... its worth what you can sell it for and not a penny more!

I disagree.. If am shrewd enough to buy something for say £1000 and I think it's worth £1500 but two days later I sell it for £1800. It doesn't mean it was worth £1800!

Its worth £1800 then ......

all vehicles have have a financial value and a value of use to the owner. i regularly bill customers amounts which technically write their vehicles off. financial value may be £500 or so and they spend £300 - £400 to keep the car going for another year.

thing is if you spent £1000+ you wouldn`t buy a car that is more reliable / cheap to use and repair etc. you get my drift.

so financial value is what someone is likely to pay for said vehicle. value to the owner may be something totally different.

i have looked really hard for something that would do what my syncro does for me and i cant find anything.

The bottom line is It's only worth what someone or you, is willing to pay for it.

Mine has no replaced panels, is very good underneath as it seems to have spent a portion of its life in warmer climes (Spain), apparently the original fuel straps came undone easily, I have already removed one of the wishbones without any hassle,rear backplates are like new but not, and have been told behind the fuel tank was very good with no issues at all.

Saying that, although it seems to have an original VW replacement gearabox, a cheap spray job has probably cost me, then there's changing the original engine to a diesel. All these detract from originality which is what brings in the cash.

Then add to that the high mileage, although all wearing parts will have been replaced this still detracts from originality.
I intend to keep mine until the are £30,000 like a splitty samba unless it gets seriously bashed offroad, that's if that ever happens.
Rob.

If you are going to run a old bus/vehicle always get the best you can afford. The running & repair costs are the same.
Same with a house, if in one street houses are worth £150K but in the next street £300K, you are much better (if you can) refurbing/painting/improving the £300K house. Your costs are about the same but your money is working harder with a better return than in the cheaper house.

Recently I'm getting quite into (well I buy the mags) classic cars. Its another world.
There is serious money involved, and huge amounts (£50,000-£100,000) spent on restos. But the work involved in repairing/prep/painting a £20,000 pound Austin healey is the same as that on a £60,000 E type, the running costs will be similar but the returns much better in the Jag.
Also in real classic cars, originality & provenance is what it is all about, they don't care if the engine/brakes was improved/upgraded, they want & will pay for the original. You can already see that trend in some of the early VW's.
As to their real value, At the classic auctions for every car that breaks the guide price there will be one that doesn't meet reserve. But that doesn't mean it won't next month. Its a fickle business.

KarlT wrote: Recently I'm getting quite into (well I buy the mags) classic cars. Its another world.
There is serious money involved, and huge amounts (£50,000-£100,000) spent on restos. But the work involved in repairing/prep/painting a £20,000 pound Austin healey is the same as that on a £60,000 E type, the running costs will be similar but the returns much better in the Jag.
Also in real classic cars, originality & provenance is what it is all about, they don't care if the engine/brakes was improved/upgraded, they want & will pay for the original. You can already see that trend in some of the early VW's.
As to their real value, At the classic auctions for every car that breaks the guide price there will be one that doesn't meet reserve. But that doesn't mean it won't next month. Its a fickle business.

This is the angle I'm coming from. Our Syncros are almost classic vehicles now and I firmly believe that originality & provenance will determine the vehicle's value and desirability in the future. This is why my Multivan is still a Multivan with a few reversible mods and why my white van will be restored to original, not excessively modded and not used as a plaything.

depends whether it's an investment or a vehicle to be used, mines my daily driver, was cheap originally, had a fair bit spent but a lot of that is recoverable if required and isn't so precious that I can use it to do what I want to do in it without worrying about it's future value, it's just tin and rubber as Marcus would say, same with the house, it's something to be lived in not to make money out of, the planet is something to live on not make money out of and not an inexhaustabile resource and until human kind realises that and stops breeding like rabbits and engaging in permanent growth and the permanent arms economy we're ultimately doomed
Sure classic cars are a better investment that cash in the bank at the mo, but at the end of the day financial speculation and market value and manipulation of is all complete "Balls" and ultimately serves noone but the rich at the expense of everyone else same as the whole rest of the financial system
Roll on the end of capitalism

lhd wrote:Then there's changing the original engine to a diesel. All these detract from originality which is what brings in the cash.
Rob.

I would pay a premium for a diesel even if it wasn't original. Maybe that's just me.

Aidan wrote:depends whether it's an investment or a vehicle to be used, mines my daily driver, was cheap originally, had a fair bit spent but a lot of that is recoverable if required and isn't so precious that I can use it to do what I want to do in it without worrying about it's future value, it's just tin and rubber as Marcus would say, same with the house, it's something to be lived in not to make money out of, the planet is something to live on not make money out of and not an inexhaustabile resource and until human kind realises that and stops breeding like rabbits and engaging in permanent growth and the permanent arms economy we're ultimately doomed
Sure classic cars are a better investment that cash in the bank at the mo, but at the end of the day financial speculation and market value and manipulation of is all complete "Balls" and ultimately serves noone but the rich at the expense of everyone else same as the whole rest of the financial system
Roll on the end of capitalism

The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we'll hang them ?

joking aside (and ignoring my occasional liking for spending too much money) I'm with Aidan on this one, mostly

PS If you want to know exactly what your van is worth, set fire to it and see what the insuance gives you........

HarryMann wrote:

I spend a bit more for condition of the bodywork. Ideally I look for unrestored excellent condition bodywork. I have had a few restored vans and no matter how much effort you put into eliminating the rust it comes back. A good unrestored van lasts longer as long as it is looked after.

Well said, Rob

That's because all there are numpties out there that are obsessed with bare metal restorations.

You bare metal something you rub through the factory galvanizing that they all had, then they rot for toffee.

Bare metalling is a really really bad idea!

Small local repairs are where it's at.

I purchaced my Caravelle GL Syncro over 15 years ago, from a chap who didn't even know it was water cooled, for £3k and I swore blind I would never sell it. But early last year some one came to my pub and offered me £8k, which I turned down. He then told me he wanted mine because, even with its panel seem rust and the odd scrape, it was unrestored and according to him, it was the first Caravelle GL Syncro officially imported to the UK. On the flip side of that, selling my van based tintop Syncro camper with Audi Quatro wheels in Ford galaxy blue, I found no end of people put off by its lack of origional spec. JJ.

My Syncro is valued at what it would cost for me to bring another to exactly the same specification. It has this as an agreed value, which I'm sure i wouldn't realise if I had to make the insurance claim, but at least it is the starting point. I never intend to sell my Syncro, at least not for the forseable future, and like most folk on here have collected 2nds of virtually all the important bits that will ensure I have a fighting chance of keeping it operational as long as possible. Therefore it's 'true' value is only meaninglful to myself and my insurers.

However, I most certainly do consider my Syncro to be an item that I view in terms of strong investment return..... Except it's not financial returns, rather the 'feelgood factor'. It brightens up my day when I climb into the seat, and has enhanced the family life to noend, and long may it do so. And for that it's value is priceless.

If anyone it intersted, I found this topic on the Samba fascinating (sad aren't I!). It's a post made on the 1938-53 VW section of the forum, by an 'Economist', on High Prices - and what are the perceived market conditions that sets those really really astronomical prices of old VWs.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... sc&start=0

cheers,
Rich

jjtheanchor wrote: ... according to him, it was the first Caravelle GL Syncro officially imported to the UK.

I wonder how he knew that?

When we contacted VW UK, 15 years ago. to ask how many Caravelle GL Syncros were imported, the answer came from Hanover. They said that only 11 were manifactured for export to the UK. As I've seen six of them and mine was the only C reg one, I have no Reason to disbelieve him, unless one of the three that were turned into campers or the one that was written off are older. JJ.