replacement 2.1DJ - won't start, no spark

[monkeynut]

I guess the Points are opening and closeing ? and are gapped corectley

[MikeB]

what were the coil test figures then Mike ? While you are at it check all the leads resistances, 2kohm +/-800 ohm for the ht lead 6k ohm +/-1400 ohm for the spark plug leads, all with 1k ohm of each other. Rotor 1kohm.

I can't remember the exact figures but they were close to what you suggested. I've not checked the HT lead yet but as it was working before

I replaced the coil anyway but there was no difference.

Mike.

[MikeB]

I guess the Points are opening and closeing ? and are gapped corectley

Good call but this is electronic ignition, no points.

Thanks anyway.

Mike.

[MikeB]

Sorry I've not replied for a bit, busy busy on other things (like work) and the van depresses me too much

Anyway, I called a local mobile tuning place to come and give it the once over, second pair of eyes and all that. (plus I can't afford to lose any more hair)

The bloke came today but I get the feeling he wasn't really interested. He failed to show on Tuesday and was four hours late today. Then when he got here he told me what I knew already (ie. there's a spark but very weak)

He ruled out the Hall sensor (so that's a good thing) and blamed either the Coil or the Ignition Control Unit. I've ordeerd a coil and an Ignition Control Unit from JK so I'll fit them when they arrive. (Saturday or Monday hopefully)

This evening I swapped out the injection loom for the ignition components and put in the ignition loom for the carb version (much simpler and avoids the black boxes). same result, very weak spark. I also swapped out the dizzy with another and the result was the same which tends to back up his theory.

I think I've ruled out the black boxes for the moment as the result was the same when I didn't use them.

I'll let you know how I get on.
Mike.

[MikeB]

To continue the saga;

A coil and Ignition Control Module arrived this morning.

Fitted both to the van and still the world's weakest spark.

Un-wired and Re-fitted the ignition wiring from the carb engine - same result.

I then dug out the original, melted, loom from the shed and spent some time repairing the relevant bits of it. I fitted this in place of the loom currently on the engine and the result was still the same.

I noticed that one of the wires involved in the ignition (a green one) goes into the main wiring loom in the junction box on the engine bay bulkhead and disappears towards the front of the van. My theory now is that I may have perhaps damaged that wire somehow when re-fitting the fuel tank (the loom runs along the inside of the chassis rail above the fuel tank) I'll be dropping the fuel tank again to check the loom and rule that out.

Of course it may also be that the friendly mouse who stuffed the chassis full of plum stones also had a bit of a nibble somewhere, so a full inspection needs to be undertaken to rule that out as well.

Can't be bothered to do it this week when I'm on nights so looks like a job for the weekend.

I think I'll be putting some stuff on e-bay when I've finished I think as I now have 4x coils and 3x Ignition Control Modules as well as some other 'spare' bits

Wish me luck,
Mike.

[Grun]

Mike (from Mike)
Saw your post to C11 babe and have read the saga of your lack of spark over the period you have been posting and thought maybe by now, your problems were behind you. Surely one way to eliminate the coil and or leads from the problem, is to go back to basics. Disconnect all the electronics from the coil/ dizzy and connect a 12volt supply to terminal 15 on the coil. Temporarily earth terminal 1 on the coil with a hand held wire to chassis (or a known good earth on the engine). Then (disclaimer) with caution holding the HT lead with a suitable insulated device a short distance from the crankcase, you know what I mean, remove the hand held earth wire.
The magnetic field induced by current in the primary circuit will then rapidly decay and you should have a spark from the HT lead.
In the days of the contact breaker type distributor, we used to turn the engine by hand until the points were closed, and then, ignition on, flick them open with a screwdriver to produce the same effect.
I do admire the beautiful job you have done with the engine installation, and I will try in any way I can, via this club, to help you, but I am an old boy and draw the line at any in depth computer/ecu advice!!
Mike

[MikeB]

Thanks for that Mike. At least it will prove the coil and lead, I may even be able to work back through the system from there.

One of my problems is lack of time. I was hoping to get some work done on it on Sunday but a phone call at 21:30 Saturday changed that and I spent the entire day at work

I'll hopefully have the day off on Thursday so I'll try to get to it then. I'll let you know what happens.

Mike.

[c11babe]

Hi Mike, many thanks for the information you provided re my camper not having a spark/not starting periodically - on my way to the garage now to see if there is any news. Hope you get every thing sorted, there isn't enough hours in the day/week/month is there? Many thanks Simon (c11babe)

[Grun]

Mike B.
I've just re-read your post from page 1 with the wiring diagram in my hand.
Right at the start you said you had a black live feed to one side of the coil and 2 greens and a black and white on the other terminal.
The diagram shows a black live feed on terminal 15 of the coil and a black and white wire , this takes a live feed to pin 6/85 on the fuel pump relay (J17), and on to pin 6/85 on the current supply relay for Digijet and idle speed stabilizer control units (J167), returning the live feed also to pin 4 of the TCI control unit (N41)
If you double check you may find the black and white wire is still on the wrong coil terminal.
I am keeping my fingers crossed it is all that is preventing your spark.
Mike

[MikeB]

I've already moved the black/white wire over Grun, good spot though. I'll be out there on Thursday hopefully pouring over the wiring diagram again. I'll let you know how I get on.

Mike.

[Grun]

Whoops Mike,
Yes I can see now where you said you had changed the black and white one over to the same side of the coil as the black one. I had just glanced at it and read it as all leads just swapped from one side to t'other.

The green lead you said could have been trapped in fuel tank refitting I think will be the signal to the rev counter (if fitted) and the dreaded buzzer of doom. If this is shorted to earth it would be the equivalent of the points (if the dizzy had them) being permanently closed.

The Hall sender unit via the ignition module switches terminal 1 on the coil alternately to earth/ open circuit as the rotor revolves, in a similar way to a dizzy with points, as I understand it. Have you tried for a spark with that (forward going) green wire disconnected?

Yell if I am being a nuisance!

Mike

[Headley18]

Suggestion! Find which green wire runs to the front (rev counter) and cut it six inches from the coil (so it can be re connected with butt conecters if I am wrong) place a butt conecter on the end coming from the coil to isolate it. See if it will start

[MikeB]

Well, its been a very long time but it's time to bump this thread.

I've been having little bursts of working on this but many, many other things have got in the way. Motivation to mess about with the blooming thing has been lacking somewhat as well.

I have re-made earth connections, checked the loom and loads of other things, but things are improving.

The problem with the ignition was at the connector with the dash instruments. I had searched for a 12v feed that was live when the ignition was on to power some extra gauges. Unfortunately the feed I picked was the wire from the -ve side of the coil to the rev counter. The effect of this was that the current through the new gauges was keeping the connection 'up' and preventing the coil from generating a spark.

So one lesson to learn; don't use either of the green leads on the dash connector to power anything or it'll stop the engine running.

I've had the engine running on a carb from a 1.9DF but it wouldn't idle.

I have since put all the injection stuff back on and after checking every wire and connection it started. (took a while to check everything though)

It wasn't exactly running well so I attempted to adjust the ignition timing. Ended up stalling it and now it won't start again (am confident I just need to sort the timing). Battery is flat now though.

Am awaiting delivery of a new ignition timing light as I spent an hour finding my one in the shed and when I did find it couldn't get it to work.

Just in case anyone was wondering what happened to this.

One other advantage...... Give me a blank sheet of paper and I could draw the wiring diagram from memory, wire colours and connector numbers and everything I reckon

Mike.

(or should that be Lucky Mike)

[Rozzo]

put a points dizzy in off an old un then at least you'll be able to test the engine?
12v to + , neg to dizzy and a guaranteed spark as fat as a fat thing.
sometimes electrickery just gets too complicated fer its own good imho

[kyleewyleecoyote]

Mike

I'd spare some time, if I had any, but, I've got a spare complete DJ inc. ancilleries down in Ashford (all running before it was removed), let me know if you need anything, even borrow part or whole to help with elimination.

Kyle