Syncro 4&4 Discussion and Q&A last answered over 2 years ago.
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syncrosimon wrote:Easiest way of getting a Busman vehicle back here is to tow it and worry about the legalities another time.
Economy of the DJ 16" factory hightop goes anywhere between 20 and 25 mpg depending on headwind and speed. Doing 70 to 80 mph all day will give you about 21 to 23mpg, slower for more, and into a headwind and flat out and short journeys 20ish.
The factory hightop is low, we had a roof bed in there but with my oldest at 6'4" and 14 stone he does not want to be up there with his 11 year old brother anymore. They were happy enough a few years ago though, and it is perfect standing height for those below 6 foot, I have to stoop a bit. The boys now want to sleep away from mum and dad in their own tent, so problem solved.
The old diesel question must be down to preference. A 1.6 is going to feel slow compared to a DJ, but more economical. Converting to a bigger diesel is expensive as you will need a rebuilt box, but then you probably will with any second hand syncro at some point. You can see that you go around in circles.
At the end of the day it is going to cost you loads, so you must have what you want so as to stay in love with it. Many people have fallen by the wayside as the syncro has not fulfilled them as they expected, so just get the one you think you will want to keep the longest.
The serious off roadies all prefer the diesels for the stump pulling torque (though none of them have gone on a rolling road and shown us the beef). I prefer to blast along in my flat four with the window down enjoying the VW heritage flat four sound type thing. It's all the same thing at the end of the day, you are moving a big hulk of metal with an engine.
The diesel boys don't post on the forum when there engines go wrong (which they do) as much as the wbx crowd do, and you will be hounded by those in the know that only diesel will do, which does give a slightly distorted view of the wbx. Getting an engine from a mid nineties Golf and spending thousands getting it to work right and then comparing it to a 22 year old standard engine has always seemed a bit ridiculous to me.
Just make sure you get what you want, whatever that may be.
Simon is right, get a 2.1 petrol they are much better..... Diesels are always going wrong and its a myth that they pull better and have more torque. My Diesel van is much worse than my petrol one in the wet too, it always splutters and conks out when I go in any sort of deep water. I also know that my water may drop its load any minute in a diesel too. Although my AAZ does over third more MPG its just not worth it, like he says diesels seem ridiculous, especially off road
jed the spread wrote:
Simon is right, get a 2.1 petrol they are much better..... Diesels are always going wrong and its a myth that they pull better and have more torque. My Diesel van is much worse than my petrol one in the wet too, it always splutters and conks out when I go in any sort of deep water. I also know that my water may drop its load any minute in a diesel too. Although my AAZ does over third more MPG its just not worth it, like he says diesels seem ridiculous, especially off road
jed
Sorry I would disagree
Diesels are a much better offroad engine due to the low down torque however most people have upgraded the diesel engines to a 1.9td or TDI which involves money and time. Although as a stock van the 2.1 waterleaker is a better buy in terms of power and overall torque compared to the standard 1.6td and gassed it probably would turn out the same economy as a diesel (as gas is cheap). However waterleakers do have issues, and i would say in terms of reliability diesels are better, they usually either go or don't go(which means they are broke ) Personally I would not buy a 16" syncro as your basically buying a dodo the 14's are heading towards the extinct list in terms of certain parts but we can still harvest of the two wheel drive vans, 16's are even closer in terms of scarcity and price of certain parts. Although with VW getting more stuff and other traders like Aidan, Simon, Henning, Busman and others are getting parts remanufactured it's helping keep the syncros alive.
jed the spread wrote:
Simon is right, get a 2.1 petrol they are much better..... Diesels are always going wrong and its a myth that they pull better and have more torque. My Diesel van is much worse than my petrol one in the wet too, it always splutters and conks out when I go in any sort of deep water. I also know that my water may drop its load any minute in a diesel too. Although my AAZ does over third more MPG its just not worth it, like he says diesels seem ridiculous, especially off road
jed
Sorry I would disagree
Bloody hell Paul, wake up
jed
Last edited by jed the spread on 05 Oct 2010, 05:31, edited 1 time in total.
Buy on body.
No point getting an engine your happy with when the body is knackered.
Mechanical bits replace easily(!) but rotten underpinnings don't.
Expect sub 20 for mpg from a 2.1l
If you buy a 2.1l don't use it locally, save it for holidays when the cost of fuel doesn't matter.
if you want to use it for shopping then personally I think your daft to buy a petrol.
If you do buy a petrol, then gas it then you'll have to live with comprimised interior space, something which I see no sense in, buy a camper because you can get all your stuff in then comprimise it with a dirty great tank, but it takes all sorts..
I can almost guarantee that every bush on the front and rear suspension will want changing, plus a load of catch up work that has not been performed in the past, yes it may have come from a army, but how long has it been parked up and how long has it been out of service?
If you buy one that has had some work done, has the work been done to a decent standard?
I personally would prefer to buy a mechanically neglected one and just factor in to the purchase price a front suspension rebuild, a VC and a set of brakes. leave enough in your budget for this work.
I doubt if there are many syncros running around with a gearbox that hasn't had some attention at some point, also something worth considering.
Also, if you want to replace the 16" dampers, I think they are just short of a grand for a set, 14" about a quarter of that.
Personally, I don't think the extras you get on a 16" are worth it, nor the premium price tag. I would concentrate on buying a 14" and having some cash left over to put it right.
Simon Baxter wrote:Buy on body.
No point getting an engine your happy with when the body is knackered.
Mechanical bits replace easily(!) but rotten underpinnings don't.
Expect sub 20 for mpg from a 2.1l
If you buy a 2.1l don't use it locally, save it for holidays when the cost of fuel doesn't matter.
if you want to use it for shopping then personally I think your daft to buy a petrol.
If you do buy a petrol, then gas it then you'll have to live with comprimised interior space, something which I see no sense in, buy a camper because you can get all your stuff in then comprimise it with a dirty great tank, but it takes all sorts..
I can almost guarantee that every bush on the front and rear suspension will want changing, plus a load of catch up work that has not been performed in the past, yes it may have come from a army, but how long has it been parked up and how long has it been out of service?
If you buy one that has had some work done, has the work been done to a decent standard?
I personally would prefer to buy a mechanically neglected one and just factor in to the purchase price a front suspension rebuild, a VC and a set of brakes. leave enough in your budget for this work.
I doubt if there are many syncros running around with a gearbox that hasn't had some attention at some point, also something worth considering.
Also, if you want to replace the 16" dampers, I think they are just short of a grand for a set, 14" about a quarter of that.
Personally, I don't think the extras you get on a 16" are worth it, nor the premium price tag. I would concentrate on buying a 14" and having some cash left over to put it right.
Well Baxter - agreed by me too. Diesel aint so bad at all provided if you have an original you dont thrash the nuts off it, and no a JX wont touch a DJ in the fast lane. Having had numerous old VW diesels over the last 15 or so years I have never, ever had a major issue though I have seen PLENTY of 2.1`s smokin` in the hard shoulder. Thats not to say a DJ is a waste of time, I rather like them too from a brawn and noise perspective, but rather diesels, at least in my experience, tend to be more reliable provided you do the basic stuff in terms of maintenance and treat them well. Arguably they need more regular care than a petrol to get the best from them too and I have never skimped on oil changes and airfilters and belt changes. Have I been lucky - I think largely you get out to some extent what you put in.
In terms of cost with petrol/diesel being what it is as soon as you do any serious mileage diesel wins hands down in terms of running costs, so I am sorry but unless you are holidaying or light usage where it matters, less fuel costs currency and the difference is significant - certainly difference enough to pay my insurance alone every year. Secondly residuals - diesels have in my experience always given me good residuals too which is part of the `overhead` of owning a vehicle because invariably, one day, you will sell it.
And yes 16 inch is an extra cost for certain and unless its your toy (the only one I have now) and you are not doing the thing on purely a profit and loss basis 14 inch is definitely the more cost effective route to go. But then again for me a 16 inch is a different ride to a 14 inch!
I wish I could let it go for less but its already priced at a loss to me, and I need the funds for my next syncro project.
If it doesn't go I wont be sad, as its a great van and lots of fun just not quite what I would like.
