I've been reading a lot of this stuff .....

Post by **Ye Olde Syncrospares** » 18 Apr 2006, 08:45

good thread this,

cj.

Post by **Tribble** » 18 Apr 2006, 09:26

HarryMann wrote:
I still cant find any advice offered here where people are putting anything over safety.

Read my previous post...

yep just have. Its very interesting reading, and bookmarked for future reference, but theres no clue there of what advice the original poster was so worked up about. I just wanted an example of the advice hes seen that prompted this rant.

What is the view of the forum owners on this subject? If so much of the advice given here is dangerous and unsound, why encourage it?

Should i leave my caravelle alone? Even though on modern roads at modern speed the handling, is not up to my expectations? Its especially "fluffy" at motorway speeds, and bordering on dangerous in a headwind or crosswind.
Other than lowering and stiffening the suspension, and fitting larger tyres what can be done?
I should add that everything i can think of related to the suspension has been replaced with VW parts over the last 12months, at great expense. Including the power steering rack, and every bush listed on their parts system. Im happy that the suspension is now as it left the factory, but its still poor. Even after having all the campber, caster, tracking etc set twice. Although it is still a vast improvement on VWs earlier efforts that I have owned previously.

I have always been of the view that if youre going to replace something and an uprated version is available that will offer real improvement then it would be silly not to fit it, but perhaps thats not the case with these cars.
To be honest though, I just want it to feel safe and look good, and it doesnt at the moment. 4" of clearance in the arches might do it for some, but its not for me. and diving from one lane to another at every gust scares me out of my wits!

Post by **dubsta** » 18 Apr 2006, 09:43

How do Tribble.

Check out the forum on http://www.brick-yard.co.uk for a more sympathetic and constructive slant on improving the T3 ride

Post by **Tribble** » 18 Apr 2006, 10:19

dubsta wrote:How do Tribble.

Check out the forum on http://www.brick-yard.co.uk for a more sympathetic and constructive slant on improving the T3 ride

Hi Dubsta.

WOW! thanks for that link. Looks very informative. I might have to do some work for a while now, but i'll check it out in detail tonight.

Post by **HarryMann** » 18 Apr 2006, 10:20

To be honest though, I just want it to feel safe and look good, and it doesn't at the moment. 4" of clearance in the arches might do it for some, but its not for me. and diving from one lane to another at every gust scares me out of my wits!

Most find that an air-dam, front spoiler makes a big difference, as does arranging the fore/aft c.g. to be as far fwd as possible for this type of vehicle.

Check your tyre pressures front/rear for the exact type you are using.

I found on a syncro, renewing all the arb bushes and particularly the large front radius-rod (drag-link) bushes made a noticeable improvement.
And of course, many say lowering the suspension up to 40mm or so results in better cross-wind stability, whilst other syncro camper owners (surely the worst combination) say they don't find them as alarming as many 2WD owners say theirs are... fore/aft c.g. position?

Post by **Horza** » 18 Apr 2006, 12:06

I find it drives better with a navigator, fore aft C/G I suppose. I also find that carrying a large couterweight to the camper conversion on the nearside of the van makes it drive much sweeter.

I don't think the Club80-90 for campers/Brickyard for Bling argument is very helpfull. There are plenty of folk on here with lowered vans and interesting wheels and just because one member raises an issue as he sees it does not mean you are being persecuted.

Making modifications to suspension should be taken seriously. That does not mean don't do it, it just means don't make a lash up of it please. IIRC the Carats where lowered from factory and perhaps some others, presumably to improve handling in what was a luxury people carrier. Syncro Nutters have little room to critisise all suspension modification since there is probably more money spent on shiney aftermarket bits under many syncros than you would be able to count up on most of the even very extensively modified slammed vans.

Each to his own and I would hope that anyone on here or on Brickyard would not hesitate to point out any possibly unforseen safety risks in anyone's intended modification. It is worth noting that almost anything on here can only be taken as personal advice based on whatever experience the giver has had. It should not be taken to represent any kind of official position or recomendation of the club (as if that were possible in this non commitee based colective

) or any other organisation unless clearly marked as such and checked with the origional sources.

Post by **dubsta** » 18 Apr 2006, 12:11

no mention of bling....

Post by **Horza** » 18 Apr 2006, 12:45

Hey, no offence intended, I'm bling friendly me

Post by **HarryMann** » 18 Apr 2006, 18:20

stock specifications for the alloy wheel equipped T25s is 36 psi front and 41 psi rear ...

An 86 syncro came with steelies originally, so the doorpanel spec is 40 front, 48 psi rear...

Dredged these specs up, which indicates to me that they're set for stability (lack of oversteer)

Post by **Simon Baxter** » 19 Apr 2006, 22:17

Personal experience tells me that fitting a suspension package such as the AVO kit vastly improves the road holding of a T3.

No messing, no numbers, no posh words, no "Balls", it just works, well.

It works much better if the job is done right and the geometry is reset afterwards as mentioned the supension arms are of unequal length and as the suspension gets lower the camber gets more negative.
you also end up with lots of toe out, both of which eat tyres and make them handle funny.

Lower them, reset the geometry and enjoy a IMHO better looking van that goes around corners a lot better that doesn't get blown about as much.

Post by **syncropaddy** » 21 Apr 2006, 21:36

So there you go. Enough said now I think. Really it boils down to this ...

If enough people say the same thing then everyone thinks its right even if it isnt.

If you spend a fortune on lowering and modifying your van of course its going to be better ... you are not going to admit you spent a load of money and made a mess of it now are you.

VW have load ratings on their tyres for a reason so stick to them. They are a world wide standard for their vehicles coz they sell their vehicles worldwide. UK construction and use regs are a local thing and valid in one country only .. the UK.

TUV is the way to go coz it prevents bodge ups and the like

Im not worked up - just observant and carp at spelling

Never fit wheel spacers of any kind

Use sunscreen

Post by **clash460** » 23 Apr 2006, 16:39

syncropaddy wrote: Oh yeah, get power steering and make life easier for yourself.
Rant over

there we where starting to think you wer`nt an old fart when you suggest the need for power steering, tch tch

Post by **syncropaddy** » 23 Apr 2006, 19:05

You dont HAVE to have power steering but its really nice espically in a Syncro

Post by **clash460** » 23 Apr 2006, 20:57

only teasing SyncroPaddy
my syncro does not have power steering(which is one less thing to go wrong) so will continue to eat the red meat and take the vitamin pills

Post by **Simon Baxter** » 23 Apr 2006, 21:15

syncropaddy wrote:
Never fit wheel spacers of any kind

Why?

Tell me one instance of a wheel spacer failing.

You drive a syncro, fair enough.

I drive a lowered van, fair enough.

Horses for courses.

If lowering/handling packages are so wrong how come so many companies sell them? how many go wrong? how many kits make people crash?
If lowering packages are really so wrong how come VW did it themselves with the 30mm lower kit, and, and shorter bumpstops.
How come recognised and respected companies like Sachs, Koni, Bilstein, AVO, Jamex, Spax all sell products to tailor the ride to how the owner wants it.

Basically, I think your talking cobblers. IMHO.

Have you driven a lowered van?

This all seems like speculation.

So, if you want some different wheels on right, but you cannot get the correct offset what is so wrong with using a spacer shim to correct the offset problem? Absolutley nothing. Again, if they were so wrong they wouldn't be made. If they were that dangerous they would be outlawed, like banded wheels. But, they are not.

Broaden your horizons, don't have such a blinkered outlook on things, like they say, ignorance breeds hatred.

Syncro's are fine for people who want to off road, not everyone is like that, some spend all their time on the road, whays wrong with making them perform in a way which is more suited to your own driving style and not the factory "Suits everyone" comprimises that are built in.