Tj,
don't suppose you kept the peugeot adaptor plate for the gearbox did you? Would love to buy it off you if you did.
Andy
T25 1.6TD - very noisy engine and running on oil....
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thefatsurfer
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tj2008 wrote:Andy,
thanks for the response - they obviously don't have the experience you have.
Does anyone have any photos of a head gasket on the right way around that I could send with these ones to the garage in question to show them the mistake they've made???
No picture but the 3 notches sticking out the side of the gasket are now next to cyl 3, they need to be next to cylinder 2.
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PC52
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I looked at this camper before it left the garage (where initial engine replacement/repairs etc took place). It was pretty much clear then that the head gasket was on wrong. Now pic 5 clearly shows that. Another concern also was that they hadn't done cam belt at the same time considering all of the "effort" the garage had done, not forgetting the price they charged aswell.
Now on looking at the pictures notice compressor pump pipe broken off = limited braking capacity.
They must of itemised the bill to you?
Now on looking at the pictures notice compressor pump pipe broken off = limited braking capacity.
Did the garage that fitted it also bill for 10 new head bolts (replaceable stretch bolts)? Dya think they followed the full torque and angle tighten down procedure.
They must of itemised the bill to you?
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[img:800:600]https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/images/1.9TD ... rusion.jpg[/img]
Clearly shows the gasket thickness marker holes adjacent to Cylinder 2 as Andy says, view your images and they are adjacent to Cylinder 3..
+ look at the way the angled and slotted hole (between 1 & 2) is 'partly' uncovering another hole, flip the gasket and look underneath and you'll see that there is a slotted waterway between 3, & 4 - which is where the gasket slot should be, the only one like this...
It's on upside down and you seem to have found 2 garages now that aren't that au fait with VW diesels
Clearly shows the gasket thickness marker holes adjacent to Cylinder 2 as Andy says, view your images and they are adjacent to Cylinder 3..
+ look at the way the angled and slotted hole (between 1 & 2) is 'partly' uncovering another hole, flip the gasket and look underneath and you'll see that there is a slotted waterway between 3, & 4 - which is where the gasket slot should be, the only one like this...
It's on upside down and you seem to have found 2 garages now that aren't that au fait with VW diesels
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Blue Meanies
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Money back time!
TJ,
Did you by chance pay 1st garage with plastic?
If you did then contact your card company, and there legal team will pursue a refund and or compensation, as the garage has a contract with the mega bucks credit card company to supply the services that THEY paid for. Even a large garage will mess themselves when the big bad card company gets involved.
Did you by chance pay 1st garage with plastic?
If you did then contact your card company, and there legal team will pursue a refund and or compensation, as the garage has a contract with the mega bucks credit card company to supply the services that THEY paid for. Even a large garage will mess themselves when the big bad card company gets involved.
DENK AN DIE UMWELT - FAHR MIT DEM BUS!
Latest update
Hi all,
Couple of updates for you;
1. Paid by plastic (with that in mind!) - have contacted my credit card and am progressing a case with them.
2. Cam belt was a new kit
3. No new bolts used
4. Sorry - don't have the Peugeot plate anymore....Try the garage in Bristol who probably sold it on!
Will keep you posted.....
Couple of updates for you;
1. Paid by plastic (with that in mind!) - have contacted my credit card and am progressing a case with them.
2. Cam belt was a new kit
3. No new bolts used
4. Sorry - don't have the Peugeot plate anymore....Try the garage in Bristol who probably sold it on!
Will keep you posted.....
TJ
Additional info
Harry Man - could you email me direct with a copy of the jpeg showing a correctly installed head gasket?
Cheers,
Tom
Cheers,
Tom
Last edited by tj2008 on 23 Oct 2008, 09:12, edited 1 time in total.
TJ
Will keep you posted.....
Ta!
No new (head bolts)
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Harry Man - could you email me direct with a copy of the jpeg showing a correctly installed head gasket?
Click on image in post above to enlarge, then
Right click on image and.... Save Image As
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PC52
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Re: Latest update
tj2008 wrote:Hi all,
Couple of updates for you;
1. Paid by plastic (with that in mind!) - have contacted my credit card and am progressing a case with them.
2. Cam belt was a new kit
3. No new bolts used
4. Sorry - don't have the Peugeot plate anymore....Try the garage in Bristol who probably sold it on!
Will keep you posted.....
Tom, Still have to query the new cam belt, they may have billed it but when I looked at it, it had score marks on the outside of it, which being new shouldn't have. It didn't look new to me.
As for the peugeot plate - that's still your property isn't it? Another faux pas on the garage side.
When I looked at there were some exhaust parts and a bellhousing inside your camper but no adaptor plate, expect that it's still bolted to your old engine, where ever that is now.
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Update - Oct
Hi all,
Update so far - garage are suggesting that I'm wrong. I've attached the main part of the recently received document for you to take a look at and comment;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To answer the questions in your email, the cylinder head from the engine you supplied, was removed and sent to a specialist engineering company I use where it was examined, pressure tested and skimmed prior to refitting. The engineering company I use does not, as a matter of course, provide a printout of the results. At this stage I have to say that I have never had any reason to complain about the quality of the work of this company in the 12 years I have been dealing with them.
Head gaskets do not blow of their own accord but usually as a result of overheating due to such things as defective radiators or water pumps, or poor maintenance or even being constantly being driven harshly for an extended period of time. Judging by the condition of the engine you supplied, I would say that it had definitely not been well maintained both from its outward appearance and the fact that the oil was so thick that it had blocked the drain hole which had to be unblocked with a screwdriver in order to drain the oil.
When the head was returned I refitted it using a 'Matching Quality Part' (MQP) head gasket, these parts are guaranteed to be of equivalent quality to those supplied by manufacturers and can be used on a vehicle without invalidating a manufacturers' warrantee.
After refitting the cylinder head I started the engine and initially it ran well however after running it for about an hour it developed a knocking sound which was gradually becoming louder and I formed the opinion that one or more of the main engine bearings was showing signs of wear. I have experienced this problem before when fitting a new or reconditioned cylinder head to a worn bottom end particularly if the bottom end is high mileage or poorly maintained. The problem arises because by fitting a new or reconditioned cylinder head, which is very gas tight, it raises the compression ratio of the engine which, in turn, puts increased pressure on the worn mechanical components of the bottom end and can, in some cases, result in their failure. I believe that this is what happened in the case of the engine you supplied.
I note your comments re the work I carried out on your behalf and, having carefully studied the photographs you sent me and also not having been present when the engine was stripped, I make the following observations:-
· I have worked on numerous of these engines during my 12 years experience as a diesel mechanic and am well aware of the possibility of fitting a head gasket upside down therefore would not make such a fundamental mistake.
· Had the gasket been fitted upside down then, as you say, no oil would get to the head or camshaft. If this were the case then the camshaft would have rapidly overheated, the white metal bearings would have melted and the shaft would seize. There is no way the engine would have run for the hour I had it running before it began knocking, the camshaft would have seized long before this. I note from the position of the valves in the picture of the cylinder head that the camshaft has been removed, why was this? You do not need to remove the camshaft to remove the cylinder head for inspection.
· Although your picture of the block shows valve impact marks on the crown of the pistons, there are no corresponding marks on the valves in the head. If the valves were striking the piston crowns then there would be areas of clean metal on the valve faces and whilst I can count at least 5 impact marks on the piston crowns not 1 of the valves in the head shows any signs of impact.
· I agree that the picture of the cylinder head you sent me clearly shows that cylinders 1&4 have not sealed as there is extensive burning to the head caused by hot exhaust gases escaping. There are no corresponding burn marks on the face of the head gasket. Any escape of gases sufficiently hot enough to burn metal will also burn a head gasket.
· Similarly, the burn marks in the cylinder head clearly show that hot exhaust gases were escaping into the engine water jacket on both 1&4 cylinders. Again had this been occurring when I ran the engine I would have known straight away that there was a problem as the cooling system would have pressurised immediately and overheated extremely quickly.
· In the picture of the cylinder head there are signs of water having been in no 3 cylinder i.e. rusty marks, however there are no corresponding signs of water in the bore of no 3 cylinder, in fact no 3 cylinder appears to be in the best condition of them all.
· In the picture showing the cylinder block I note that the vacuum pump in the top right hand of the picture is damaged, the one fitted to your engine when you took the vehicle away was intact.
· It is virtually impossible to get the timing wrong on this type of engine provided you have the correct tools (which I have) to set it up.
· I have already addressed the matter of the non genuine gasket above.
Given the above and in particular the lack of burn marks on the head gasket combined with the lack of impact marks on the valves and the cooling system not pressurizing/overheating, I do not believe that the pictures you sent me are of the engine I fitted to your vehicle.
Had I been afforded the opportunity to strip the engine or be present when it was stripped and was satisfied that I had made a mistake then I would have either rectified the mistake of given you a refund as requested. However I do not believe the photographic evidence you sent me proves any form of negligence on my part therefore I am not prepared to refund your money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a written document from 2 seperate garages which will easily prove that this is indeed the same engine and the head gasket was installed incorrectly. However - any advice on the points in the reply above would be very much appreciated
Update so far - garage are suggesting that I'm wrong. I've attached the main part of the recently received document for you to take a look at and comment;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To answer the questions in your email, the cylinder head from the engine you supplied, was removed and sent to a specialist engineering company I use where it was examined, pressure tested and skimmed prior to refitting. The engineering company I use does not, as a matter of course, provide a printout of the results. At this stage I have to say that I have never had any reason to complain about the quality of the work of this company in the 12 years I have been dealing with them.
Head gaskets do not blow of their own accord but usually as a result of overheating due to such things as defective radiators or water pumps, or poor maintenance or even being constantly being driven harshly for an extended period of time. Judging by the condition of the engine you supplied, I would say that it had definitely not been well maintained both from its outward appearance and the fact that the oil was so thick that it had blocked the drain hole which had to be unblocked with a screwdriver in order to drain the oil.
When the head was returned I refitted it using a 'Matching Quality Part' (MQP) head gasket, these parts are guaranteed to be of equivalent quality to those supplied by manufacturers and can be used on a vehicle without invalidating a manufacturers' warrantee.
After refitting the cylinder head I started the engine and initially it ran well however after running it for about an hour it developed a knocking sound which was gradually becoming louder and I formed the opinion that one or more of the main engine bearings was showing signs of wear. I have experienced this problem before when fitting a new or reconditioned cylinder head to a worn bottom end particularly if the bottom end is high mileage or poorly maintained. The problem arises because by fitting a new or reconditioned cylinder head, which is very gas tight, it raises the compression ratio of the engine which, in turn, puts increased pressure on the worn mechanical components of the bottom end and can, in some cases, result in their failure. I believe that this is what happened in the case of the engine you supplied.
I note your comments re the work I carried out on your behalf and, having carefully studied the photographs you sent me and also not having been present when the engine was stripped, I make the following observations:-
· I have worked on numerous of these engines during my 12 years experience as a diesel mechanic and am well aware of the possibility of fitting a head gasket upside down therefore would not make such a fundamental mistake.
· Had the gasket been fitted upside down then, as you say, no oil would get to the head or camshaft. If this were the case then the camshaft would have rapidly overheated, the white metal bearings would have melted and the shaft would seize. There is no way the engine would have run for the hour I had it running before it began knocking, the camshaft would have seized long before this. I note from the position of the valves in the picture of the cylinder head that the camshaft has been removed, why was this? You do not need to remove the camshaft to remove the cylinder head for inspection.
· Although your picture of the block shows valve impact marks on the crown of the pistons, there are no corresponding marks on the valves in the head. If the valves were striking the piston crowns then there would be areas of clean metal on the valve faces and whilst I can count at least 5 impact marks on the piston crowns not 1 of the valves in the head shows any signs of impact.
· I agree that the picture of the cylinder head you sent me clearly shows that cylinders 1&4 have not sealed as there is extensive burning to the head caused by hot exhaust gases escaping. There are no corresponding burn marks on the face of the head gasket. Any escape of gases sufficiently hot enough to burn metal will also burn a head gasket.
· Similarly, the burn marks in the cylinder head clearly show that hot exhaust gases were escaping into the engine water jacket on both 1&4 cylinders. Again had this been occurring when I ran the engine I would have known straight away that there was a problem as the cooling system would have pressurised immediately and overheated extremely quickly.
· In the picture of the cylinder head there are signs of water having been in no 3 cylinder i.e. rusty marks, however there are no corresponding signs of water in the bore of no 3 cylinder, in fact no 3 cylinder appears to be in the best condition of them all.
· In the picture showing the cylinder block I note that the vacuum pump in the top right hand of the picture is damaged, the one fitted to your engine when you took the vehicle away was intact.
· It is virtually impossible to get the timing wrong on this type of engine provided you have the correct tools (which I have) to set it up.
· I have already addressed the matter of the non genuine gasket above.
Given the above and in particular the lack of burn marks on the head gasket combined with the lack of impact marks on the valves and the cooling system not pressurizing/overheating, I do not believe that the pictures you sent me are of the engine I fitted to your vehicle.
Had I been afforded the opportunity to strip the engine or be present when it was stripped and was satisfied that I had made a mistake then I would have either rectified the mistake of given you a refund as requested. However I do not believe the photographic evidence you sent me proves any form of negligence on my part therefore I am not prepared to refund your money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a written document from 2 seperate garages which will easily prove that this is indeed the same engine and the head gasket was installed incorrectly. However - any advice on the points in the reply above would be very much appreciated
TJ