Chargecool or air to air .... ?

[max and caddy]

water is a better cooling medium than air...heat up a bolt red hot and blow on it untill you can pick it up with your fingers....be a while...then do the same and pop it in a bucket of cold water....see how quick it can be fished out by hand...

[HarryMann]

Unfortunately, that (specific heat of an intermediate fluid) is not what matters when it comes to getting the lowest inlet air temps

[max and caddy]

so a charge cooler is not as good as an intercooler because.....

[syncropaddy]

OK a few things posted up so far .....

The scoop on the DoKa is basically a good idea but a non starter on a Syncro because as Ian points out, a scoop it is!!

Unreliability with the cooling water circuit in the charge system has been mentioned and we could also throw in the additional cost/work involved with this circuit

Temperatures have been mentioned. So who has the values for the charge temperature exiting the cooler matrix on either / both systems? We cannot say that one is better than the other until we have actual temperature values.

[lloydy]

OK a few things posted up so far .....



Temperatures have been mentioned. So who has the values for the charge temperature exiting the cooler matrix on either / both systems? We cannot say that one is better than the other until we have actual temperature values.

thing is, even that won't give a definitive answer, due to different set ups

[syncropaddy]

thing is, even that won't give a definitive answer, due to different set ups

I think it will give us a very big something to go on because this is the the purpose of a cooler, cooling the charge, so if we had some realtime values of the charge exiting the cooler ..... but we need them in a T25.

[silverbullet]

Always the problem. No data to back up the claims/hopes/projected sales...all rule of thumb and crossed fingers, "looks alright to me" self-assessment etc.

No-one wants to hack their van about in the interest of proper R&D but this would be an ideal use for the Dodoka in skilled hands...

No two set-ups are going to be the same and for some strange reason no-one seems to have gone out and bought A.Graham Bell's "Forced Induction Performance Tuning" and then sung it's praises about it's accessability and usefulness other than me

Maybe because it's all written for spark-ignition engines. Not that the principles aren't applicable to CI engines, you'll just have more homework!

[ELVIS]

timmy shettle down in bristols doing some interesting air too air http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/inter ... oop#571545" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

getting that amount of cool clean air (hopefully not straight off the baking hot tarmac either) through an intercooler anywhere near enough to the engine is quite a challenge.

Tim's looks like a good one for scooping up gravel, dirt, leaves, rainwater, hot air and then be a bugger to keep clean. A choked cooler is no use to anyone...
(no offence meant Tim, but I can't see it as a solution)

S'not chaps. Ive just had mine done (i was his first T3 one as they have been for UN1s up to now) position in relation to raod/height/protection is no different to intake on golfs/passats etc. Good enough position for VAGs multimillion pound R+D budget then good enough for me. I am sure adolphs mates considered same when designing it. I am sure VAG also considered baking hot tarmac factors aswell.

Intake temp dropped hooooge amount compared to having it behind rear light/battery tray area with pants ali seals around it.

Anyway, rain water will cool fins quicker - like a weather dependant charge cooler i guess


I know there is lots of bench racing going on these days with regards to mods/chargecoolers etc etc. Anyone got genuine figures off VCDS yet? I have and WELL happy

[silverbullet]

Lots of boost in the cold/wet - exciting!

If it's working for you Elvis then OK, I'm talking bollards but I'd fit a charge air temp gauge to keep an eye on the matrix condition, to be on the safe side

[syncropaddy]

S'not chaps. Ive just had mine done (i was his first T3 one as they have been for UN1s up to now) position in relation to raod/height/protection is no different to intake on golfs/passats etc. Good enough position for VAGs multimillion pound R+D budget then good enough for me.

Whats the airflow rate underneath a T3 in relation to the front of a Passat? The airflow characteristics underneath a T3 will be very different to a front mounted Passat unit, in fact there might even be negative pressure under there.

[ELVIS]

it is and im happy

k, seeing as depsite 2 or 3 threads only one other person had put numbers up

before 85' spiking at 86/87 when ragged (Spanking it on M32) ambient air temp of approx 7 or 8'

after 55' wouldnt go above that now matter how hard it was caned thr gears ambient air temp of 16 or 17' - thats a boggo standard 1Z on 3H box and 185/14s

Fitting another box this week with .7 5th gear and 4.14 R/P so will get some figures after thats fitted then again next week when AFN injectors go in (will drag mate out as need to do adjust IQ after new injectors anyway).

Cost me very sensible money so happy. IF i went charge cooler route i would only be happy to fit 'known' stuff - pace/allard etc as am very concerned about the cheap chinese ebay ones - cut one in half and whats in there? anything? by the time youve bought pump/header/rad/hoses etc etc its gonna cost a pretty penny. Ive got a very tidy install and it uses VAG intercooler, alot of OE pipework and a few silicon hoses.

As mentioned before - surely qualifiable/quantifiable numbers are an idea so we can all share what works/what dosnt work/what represents VFM etc?

[ELVIS]

S'not chaps. Ive just had mine done (i was his first T3 one as they have been for UN1s up to now) position in relation to raod/height/protection is no different to intake on golfs/passats etc. Good enough position for VAGs multimillion pound R+D budget then good enough for me.

Whats the airflow rate underneath a T3 in relation to the front of a Passat? The airflow characteristics underneath a T3 will be very different to a front mounted Passat unit, in fact there might even be negative pressure under there.

I'll let the numbers do the talking instead of ruminating. It works..........

[syncropaddy]

So what are the cooler outlet temperatures?

[silverbullet]

Ambient 7 or 8 degrees? What do you think that's going to be like on a Motorway at 5 in the afternoon when it's 25+ outside?

Good point Andrew. Passats are front engined and pick up air in a high-pressure zone below the bumper. Under a T3, next to the gearbox nose, getting all the radiator's hot air wash can't be ideal for an air cooler. Not convinced.

I'm going air/water in the superboxer, it's efficient and compact (if done right - look at an XJR or Impreza Turbo underbonnet) and no reason for it to be unreliable. I'm going to do some experiments for airflow and pressure; I can see the bus ending up with vents next to the rear lights to dump air into the low-pressure zone behind the vehicle.

[syncropaddy]

Good point Andrew. Passats are front engined and pick up air in a high-pressure zone below the bumper. Under a T3, next to the gearbox nose, getting all the radiator's hot air wash can't be ideal for an air cooler. Not convinced.

For that scoop to work in that area you need to have the cooler in the middle of a complete aerodynamic tract. For the air to be sucked / forced into that cooler rad effectively it needs to be effectively drawn away, which it isnt.