T25 Trident 1991

For documenting and technical details of T25 restorations and major repairs
This section is for major restorations only.where to buy a panel or where to buy window rubbers belong in the bodywork seats and glass section.
Also please note,we need pictures of the restorations,without them posts are pretty useless.[\b]
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JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Finished plug welding the sill to the top panel.
The good
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The bad
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The ugly
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So still room for improving skills but ground down OK
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Ready to fit MMs closure panels :D
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1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

On with the saga ....
I popped some holes along the seams - fit seemed reasonably straight although made some compromises. Clamping is difficult and I probably should have used more of my imitation klekos. I used a batten of wood against the side panel to push down when welding along the far seam.

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Welding on a bench with a few inches of metal is completely different to panel work. I should have learnt from the outer panel movement to expect movement on the closure panel but did not expect so much distortion as I moved about. Perhaps MM can critique. Not sure whether I am using too much power, too little and too long on each plug. But a few plug welds popped again so did a bit of seam welding to compensate. I would have liked the flanges to have mated better.

Painted with epoxy primer.

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The rear vertical seam should have been a little tighter (sorry MM) and the panel has lost a bit of its curve - but hey NO RUST :D and water tight.

I was working to a deadline for my daughter to take Buzz out for a few days camping in the New forest so I filled and rattle canned to afford some protection but done in damp conditions so will be stripped and painted a little more carefully. Have yet to seam seal inside. But seam sealed the bottom edge of the outer sill after the epoxy primer and then overpainted.

New petrol tank went in reasonably smoothly but will have to remove again to work on some other areas .... and JK sold me the wrong sized grommets. I will also just fit long single hoses rather than the loose arrangement of multiple plastic pipes.
1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

I was looking at pictures as the van headed south and noticed the petrol breather tank was missing its nut - I had used it to fit the battery - oops.
But in that I had failed repeatedly to remove the breather tank I was reasonably confident it would stay attached. Just need to remember to fix.

The van returned unscathed at 7 am Saturday and I had 1 hour for pre MOT check. Lights lit and flashed, wipers wiped, washers washed and brakes did what they were meant to do - the extend of my checks as to fail on a light bulb is always frustrating. But nothing I could do about the small pinholes in the rear silencer and what felt like slight play in the offside front wheel bearing. 2 hours later it was back home with a new MOT and no advisories.
:ok
Good news in that I can focus on body over summer without worrying about mechanicals, although will look at bearings.

The holes in the exhaust are disappointing in that it had a whole new exhaust system less than two years ago (cost to PO around £400 fitted). I suspect its a consequence of lack of use - 1000 miles in 2014 and 3000 in 2015.
1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Had hoped to post some patch repairs but technology conspiring against me - it was a training run for this ...
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This needs to be sorted before furniture goes back in van. Cleaned up some more and have holes so will cut and weld in some new metal. I have noticed that the join in the rubber on the two back (side) windows is at the bottom and thats where the rust is - but maybe thats just a gravity thing - should the join go top or bottom?
Anyone know how the fibreglass moulding comes out - taped in around windows but fixed at top. Possibly by the curtain rail. Should I tape back in place or run sealant between the moulding and metal and clamp down to to get a better/tighter seal.
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This I imagine has been an attempt to stop leaks in the past.
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Next question is whether the new window rubbers are the correct one - the old one on the left is larger and since they have to go over the internal fibreglass panel I wonder whether the smaller one will be man enough.

Now to read all the threads on how to do it ... first the metalmickey ones.
1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

Plasticman
Trader
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by Plasticman »

rht hand seal incorrect for any of our vans or should i say there are better...............
save me szearching my stuff, stick a vernier or otrher on the fibreglass and give me the measurement
mm

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Thanks mm - would appreciate "better"
The fibreglass and steel combined range between 3 to 3.9mm. Thickest on the corners.
The width of the inside rubber surround is just over 24mm
Depth of the groove for panel body is about 12 mm and for the glassjust under 7mm
Let me know if you need more details.
1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Repair of window completed. Main challenges were heat distortion, alignment and clamping. I am not sure I leave enough space along the join so will invest in a set of butt weld clamps. Tried various methods of clamping and only after I finished remembered I had a lump of metal that would have worked better but backed the section I was welding with a bit of copper to dissipate heat. Not sure it was that effective
I was a bit low on the right hand side and also blew the edge so not perfect. Went very slowly mainly little spot welds well spaced with long cooling times in between. Probably should have protected the paintwork when I ground down the welds. The opposite side window is likely to be worse as more rust showing.

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1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Painting has been another saga, mainly down to me not doing enough reading up and making some wrong assumptions. Filled and primed. The high build primer was out of a rattle can although I am looking to source a tin of it to enable me to use the spray gun. I had a weather window over the bank holiday so went for it. I could have done much more prepping to take out some of the lumps and bumps and probably should have spent time with a guide coat. I can see the faint line of the welded in the panel.
My only previous spraying has been enamel which used 10-20% thinners. I assumed similar dilution on the cellulose - WRONG! Had dry spots, which were not overspray, Went onto the MIG welding site and quickly got put right - 50:50 mix. Then went back to youtube school and watched some videos. All a great help but often one little bit missing - timings between coats or number of coats etc. As soon as I mix my paint and fill the gun I tend to panic and rush and need to spend more time setting up the gun - a fear of the paint drying in the gun and clogging up. I'm rather lucky in that a guy down the road has lent me an Anest Iwata W400 Gravity feed Spray Gun (permanent loan :D)
So left a day to dry and flatted down with 400-600 grit and tried again. The first two coats went on perfectly and I got over confident and also slowed the gun speed and hey presto a very large gloop of paint across the panel. P**d I wiped it and that was my second mistake as I should have just let it run. Have been watching some great videos on how to remove runs but by wiping the paint has probably taken away that option. My third mistake was that in my rush on the second attempt I forgot to feather the edges so have some lines to take out. On reflection the van lends itself to just masking at the seams so will do whole panels in future. The colour code is L90D - Pastel white. A little creamier than the existing paint but expect thats 25 years of sunlight at work or a repaint on some of the panels following accidents. And I suspect paint mixing is not quite as accurate as it might be. All that said, and runs aside, I was pleased with the gloss finish.
Have now purchased a 6" orbital sander to cut the panel back and try again next time the sun shines. ...

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1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

I gently sanded the runs with 600 grit and then 1200 and in that the "committee" has not agreed the new colour can live with the finish without a third respray. I did one smaller paint run using the technique of applying a thin layer of 1K filler and then sanding down till the filler was gone. Very effective. Should have taken photos. Painted the inside, could not be bothered to remove carpet glue on panels as all solvents I tried failed to remove it without a lot of effort and lung damage. Will be covered with insulation and buried behind units. So do I care - probably yes as it a job half done.
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Had slight spot of rust along seam by door. Decided to clean up and spray into seam picture shows the match of paint (ignoring the odd overspray of bonda primer) - better on the floor panel than outside where sunlight has had an effect over time. Will need to get underneath and tackle the seam from below.
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The other job that requires more effort than payback is removing the PU sealant that was used on floor and to seal the floor edging strip. They now have sealant removers but a lot of effort for little gain.
1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Rain has has been around the last few weeks and I noticed in another thread someone asking about covers with the suggestion of a tarpaulin. This has been my cover for the last few weeks with the windows out. Easy to roll back and roll over if it rains. I have a large block of wood on the roof holding it down at the back.
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1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

WINDOWS .....
Have tried plans A and B and am now researching plan C - pay someone else to do it.

I painted the bare edge with some left over tank guard epoxy paint and then decided to glue/seal the inner trim to the outer panel - exhausted all my clamps in the process but they had a nice day out together and are now best friends :D
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I now understand the principles of web and minimum bend radius but have failed to get the window back in.
PLAN A was to fit new rubbers.
Sent away for lots of samples and closest match to existing came from Seals Direct who were very helpful. The top seal is the old one
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Their you tube video on fitting has some useful pointers - drawing a line against window and frame to check the size of the web, however the thicker seal has a bigger "minimum bend radius" - 100 mm and my window has I reckon a bend radius of about 40 mm so way off. The smallest I can find is 75 mm but these are for smaller seals. Anyway fitted it and not unsurprisingly had wrinkles
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Had a half hearted attempt at fitting window but gave up.

PLAN B primarily to get van back on road decided to fit old rubbers. Interesting that both old rubbers from the two side windows have a 2cm gap when fitted back into the frame.
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I assumed this was shrinkage so added an insert from the new rubber and fitted the window - some damage to the rubber along the way using the window tool - I noticed in the seals direct video they cut with a tool not dissimilar to a plastic pipe cutter - well I have to say it cuts rubber seals better than it does plastic waste pipe.
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Got the window to sit in the rubber but not to sit flush with the frame it stuck out and it was unlikely that the fill strip would push it in. So abandoned attempt.
I am now left wondering whether the rubber was originally fitted to the window and not the frame which would then mean a little bit of compromise on the corners. This would be more like fitting the windscreen. By adding the extra bit stopped the window fitting. But to fit with a rubber smaller than the recess would mean I would have to glue the rubber before fitting. Have just fitted the old rubber to the window and clearly the corners are not the best fit but length of seal better matches the outer rim of window compared to fitting to the frame.

Further reading required .......
1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Back on the road
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1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Well clearly there was a bit of work between the last two posts. Was working flat out to get everything re-fitted before we left to travel to Bolton on Friday. Left without the fridge fitted but that still needs refurbishment a post for another day.
Windows Part 2 ....
It is a brave man who ignores the freely given and supportive advice from MM ... I should have tidied the fibreglass moulding before glueing together so in the interests of finishing before Friday ......
I ran a stanley knife around my sealant and used a file and power file to trim the edges. A good thing to do as they were poorly finished off and quite thick in places. So my listening skills improving.
Before
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After
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I then went to Plan C and got a man in. Thanks Howard for a great job. Nothing to beat skill and years of doing. I don't think I would have got them in.
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1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Insulation
I went for Kiravans 7mm thermo acoustic insulation - 6m length so enough to do the floor, side panel and probably doors at some point.

Side Panel
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Under floor
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Under drivers seat
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Very sticky and a challenge to line up before sticking ..
1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

JonathanR
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Re: T25 Trident 1991

Post by JonathanR »

Floor
There were two holes in the original floor - one to vent the gas cylinder cupboard and one underneath the fridge possible for drawing air when running on gas. I gave no thought to whether get rid of them or make a better job of it, critical is the fact that with the corrugated floor there are gaps for muck to creep in. So sealing is an issue.

The floor base was woodchip, I replaced it with 9mm plywood (failed at the time to source marine ply, not a critical issue as I don't intend allowing too much water in but a better grade of plywood would have been preferable) I used one sheet of the existing floor as the template which was a mistake as I could have taken the wood wider to match the line of the plastic strip in the doorway. I overcame this by gluing in an additional batten. The fridge hole had previously had a manky bit of plastic netting so I cut in and stuck down with resin a bit of mesh from B&Q.

Fridge vent
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I screwed the ply using the existing holes from the original floor fitting and stainless steel self tappers.
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I then laid some Polyflor Polysafe standard pur (twilight) non slip lino/vinyl. I initially intended to stick down with specialist glue but decided the risk of laying it crooked and the difficulty tucking it under some fittings with the glue in place was too tricky and also would prevent lifting if needed in the future. So sticky tape around the edges and along the centre and laid onto that after filling the screw holes and running some sealant along the joint between the two sheets of ply. The holes for the table base did not line up very well with the preexisting holes so getting the right angle was a faff and not the neatest fit of the stainless steel screws into the countersunk holes of the base, but had not wanted to drill any more holes into the van floor. Ultimately with the table base screwed in. The seat base screwed down and the side unit in place the flooring aint going nowhere. I could have made a better job of the seam between the two sheets of ply. I can see the line in the lino - a bit of tape would have made a better job. One can feel a bit of flex when walking on the floor due to sitting on the insulation and will need to check the screws don't work themselves loose and punch out through the vinyl.

I added tiger seal from the inside before putting the table base in and then went underneath and added more. Well sealed.

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Have still to seal black door strip (it originally had a significant amount of PU sealant behind it) but first need to touch up some rust on the edge. I will put a carpet batten (B&Q) along the step on the left where the carpet is frayed screwing it into the ply not the van floor, but first will scrape off the foam backing which is disintegrating to dust and put in a strip of insulation.

Underneath I removed the two ally covers and made new ones still have to decide whether to seal them a little better to prevent muck getting in when driving in wet conditions.

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In that the sink hose, gas heater and water tank not fitted I taped up the holes but may attach blanking plates for a better seal - have not crawled underneath since the weekend to see whether they held out.
1991 Auto Sleeper Trident High Top
Water Cooled 1.9 Petrol

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