Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

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937carrera
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 937carrera »

multisi wrote:Have you opened up the area above the rear jacking point ? If your b post is bad then the rear jacking is most likely to be as well. Hats off to you for this resto, most people would have run away screaming !

I clearly don't understand enough yet to know I should be running away screaming :D

In all seriousness, I chose the challenge to develop my bodywork skills, and maybe a cheap way to get a nice van, eventually. I'm learning a little, progressing slowly, trying to pick up knowledge from previous threads.

This morning I looked at removing more of the inner sill. Primed the bit that I had removed the black gunk from and then used a rotary wire brush to try and expose the spot weld locations. That didn't work, except maybe for one point so set about the method suggested by 100leelee. No real success yet, but I am encouraged that what I can see so far is better than the example on this page http://www.alexorourkewelding.co.uk/aut ... allery.php.

I am drilling too deep when removing the spot welds as I am going into the second layer of metal, so that mistake is to be corrected. :roll:
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100leelee
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 100leelee »

937carrera wrote:
multisi wrote:Have you opened up the area above the rear jacking point ? If your b post is bad then the rear jacking is most likely to be as well. Hats off to you for this resto, most people would have run away screaming !

I clearly don't understand enough yet to know I should be running away screaming :D

In all seriousness, I chose the challenge to develop my bodywork skills, and maybe a cheap way to get a nice van, eventually. I'm learning a little, progressing slowly, trying to pick up knowledge from previous threads.

This morning I looked at removing more of the inner sill. Primed the bit that I had removed the black gunk from and then used a rotary wire brush to try and expose the spot weld locations. That didn't work, except maybe for one point so set about the method suggested by 100leelee. No real success yet, but I am encouraged that what I can see so far is better than the example on this page http://www.alexorourkewelding.co.uk/aut ... allery.php.


I am drilling too deep when removing the spot welds as I am going into the second layer of metal, so that mistake is to be corrected. :roll:


Too deep isn’t really a problem, when you plug weld the new inner sill in place just stagger the old weld location. If it’s like mine was you will probably need to replace the floor section that the sill welds to anyway.
There are many great reference threads on here, use them, makes life so much easier, or at least where to start!

100leelee
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 100leelee »

100leelee wrote:
937carrera wrote:
multisi wrote:Have you opened up the area above the rear jacking point ? If your b post is bad then the rear jacking is most likely to be as well. Hats off to you for this resto, most people would have run away screaming !

I clearly don't understand enough yet to know I should be running away screaming :D

In all seriousness, I chose the challenge to develop my bodywork skills, and maybe a cheap way to get a nice van, eventually. I'm learning a little, progressing slowly, trying to pick up knowledge from previous threads.

This morning I looked at removing more of the inner sill. Primed the bit that I had removed the black gunk from and then used a rotary wire brush to try and expose the spot weld locations. That didn't work, except maybe for one point so set about the method suggested by 100leelee. No real success yet, but I am encouraged that what I can see so far is better than the example on this page http://www.alexorourkewelding.co.uk/aut ... allery.php.


I am drilling too deep when removing the spot welds as I am going into the second layer of metal, so that mistake is to be corrected. :roll:


Too deep isn’t really a problem, when you plug weld the new inner sill in place just stagger the old weld location. If it’s like mine was you will probably need to replace the floor section that the sill welds to anyway.
There are many great reference threads on here, use them, makes life so much easier, or at least where to start!
ImageImage

Couple of pics on one side of mine..



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937carrera
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 937carrera »

Thanks for that, to some extent it's a question of finding the posts in the threads that show the answers.

Looking at the photo on the left did you cut away the outrigger to install the sill, and then replace the outrigger section ?

A little update from today. The cut the sill away, bend the upper strip back to locate the spot welds seems to be working, albeit slowly.

I was considering getting an air chisel - any experience of them in practice, I've seen mixed reviews ?

Image
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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937carrera
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 937carrera »

Thanks to Rob for moving this thread into the Restoration area :ok

I've made some decent progress in the past couple of hours in removing the old outer sill

First the centre section
Image

and now the rear section. I stopped cutting short of the rear trailing arm mount so I could get some feedback if possible.

The rear jacking point is I think in decent condition. I need to make a decision whether to use the full Alan Schofield sill, which will get me into removing & replacing the trailing arm mount, which I suspect will be a heap of work, or whether to cut the new sill short and leave the original metal in place. What's the right thing to do ?

Rear of the outer sill - looks like that vertical strengthener needs replacing (if that's what it is called)

Image

Inside the box section to the trailing arm mount, no rust debris removed yet :oops:
Image

View backwards up to the top of the mount, I think the top part looks solid ?
Image

View from the wheelarch to the top of the mount
Image
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by restoman »

Replace it - youve come this far !

RogerT
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by RogerT »

But it is way better than mine, which had started to burrow into the bodywork above.
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 100leelee »

Front I left as much as the original outrigger as I could, then renewed to the inner sill area.
The rear on the o/s I replaced the sill right into the trailing arm mount as that part was pretty solid. On the n/s I cut the sill short as the rear mount was ok.
I always try and leave if it’s solid.
It’s a case by case basis.
Bottom line for me is if it’s rotten cut it out, if it’s not leave alone..
Plus I’m pretty sure that the steel I’ve put back in won’t last as long as the original VW steel.!!

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937carrera
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 937carrera »

Thanks for the balanced thoughts - I'm still having the argument with myself, which I'll probably lose. :)

Today i continued removing the sill, but have only gone as far back as where the cut was made. I cleaned the trailing arm mount up with the finger file and it does look solid, only surface rust. The other thing in my mind is that the bodywork panel above the mount has already replaced and I have been told it was a decent job, so I am a little reluctant to delve into that.

Next I wanted to understand how the body panel and floor were attached, if they were (see I really don't know this stuff). Turns out they are, at least in the original design.

First job of exploraration was to remove the lower section of the body, below the floor line

Image

Then I took a look at the underside of the floor and could see that the floor is attached to the outer wing, and there are some minor rust holes. Question is how much should I remove and replace

Image

Now from the inside - Caused I think by water collecting at the bottom of the bodypanel and held in by the polystrene sheet that provided insulation / sound deadening

Image

A little further back which shows that the original body panels have a lip attached, which I suppose was spot welded to the floor underneath :?:

Image

I then cut out a section above the floor to get access to the point where the body panel and the B post meet. Lots of seam sealer here

Image

And a close up, some sealer pulled off by now.

Image

And finally the replacement body panel, new two piece design complete with lip. I have one of the older one piece ones as well, no lip.

Image

It'll be a while before I am ready to fit that. :roll:
Last edited by 937carrera on 25 Apr 2018, 18:38, edited 1 time in total.
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 937carrera »

Today was take a grinder to work day. :)

As what I am trying to get to is the B post, and how it attaches to the rest of the body I decided to start on the process of removing the rear of the battery box which had corroded because of the crud accumulating around the petrol breather tanks.

Here's what it looked like. Manky

Image

And now after wielding the grinder. The bottom of the battery panel was I think attached to the outrigger in some way, now gone to rust heaven, you can see the small cut which is flush with the top of the outrigger. Next stage of the process is to find / remove the spot welds holding the remainder of the battery box rear in place and remove them if possible. Otherwise I may need to grind them off.

Fortunately the battery box floor looks sound, even though some of the sealer is missing underneath and there is some visible rust. Hopefully just surface.

Image

As always any advice appreciated. I don't know what I'm doing yet, with a bit of luck the thread will be useful to others tackling the same tasks as I know we have lost a number of excellent threads.
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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937carrera
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 937carrera »

This morning I decided that for access and safety reasons I needed to remove the fuel tank.

Here it is after dusting off the accumulated dust - I think many people have seen worse. It looks like someone has modified the routing of the flexible vent pipe on the left hand side and have not used the short metal section towards the front of the tank. I'll need to see if that was for a reason or just a shortcut.

Next job is to continue removing the rear of the battery box

Image
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 937carrera »

I removed the remainder of the metal for the battery box through a combination of using a cutting disc to remove metal up to the edges, using it to cut through and separate the two layers of metal - those 1mm thin discs are great for this and then simply grinding any other material off.

You can see that I even removed the top section from the right hand side where the seat belt mounts affix. pointless really as that whole section will be replaced, but all good practice.

Here's what it looks like now

Image

and with the replacement section in place. The finger is pointing to a gap which exists because I have not removed the remainder of the lip from the original battery box which is spot welded I assume to the B post. The whole section needs moving over about 1cm. I think I am going to have to make that whole forward facing section of the B post as Schofields don't make one. Does anyone know of a decent alternative ?

I'm going to need to do more work cleaning up the crossmember and especially the point where it joins the floor.

The bottom left of the battery box seems to have a couple of cutouts as though it should slot in somewhere. Whatever should be there isn't now. :roll:

Image
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by multisi »

The complete outer b post is still available but expensive, this has the forward facing area which would be difficult to make due to the shape. If you can afford this genuine panel it would make things a lot easier to remake that area after the inner b post has been reconstructed.
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937carrera
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by 937carrera »

Thanks, I looked by part number, is Brickwerks the best place to get one ?

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/t3-parts/b ... plete.html

As you say pricey, but no other alternatives except make your own. I think you can see from the pictures that the B post is corroded on the front facing side, and on the inside face.
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
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Re: Brilliant Orange Project, bodywork advice

Post by RogerT »

Mystery cut-outs... just hanging around with nothing to do. But Tapatalk isn’t playing so I can’t show you. The panel you showed ends a inch and a half above floor level, and laps over the panel beneath it. The cut-outs are irrelevant.

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https://flic.kr/p/23PootG
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