Fixing a van thats been "fixed"

[toomanytoys]

Not the usuall tech thing, but you decide if its worth the read..

Doogie aked me to come up and fix his van in Cumbria (1990, 2.1 Auto with powersteering, Holdsworth Vision), it had a problem that had been on going for several months and was driving him and his wife crazy.. Originaly the ECU was diagnosed as the cause of a problem (probably rightly so as the fuel pump wouldnt run) the ECU was changed and it ran ok.. over the next few months the van became worse, running rough and stalling..

Another ECU was sourced and made no difference, new ignition module, coil, leads etc etc followed suit, until the dizzy was deemed at fault and sent away for a full refurb.. the van has been totally unreliable and let them down several times.. so totally fed up by now.. When Doogie asked me to come and have a look I was concerned that I wouldnt be able to fix the problem... and as the distance was so far it would have been a big cost to revisit, but we came to an arrangement..
I drove up early tues morn.. after intial discussions and looking and listening etc, May (Doogies wife) cooked up a fantastic breakfast for us.. YUM YUM .. On to the task of the van...

Anyway, discovering and reversing all of the "adjustments" the prev mechanics had made, was ... interesting..
Each little discovery made things better then worse as the next one was uncovered.. It was asstounding what had been done to make it run.. rather than adjusting so the engine ran (barely like the prev mechs ad done), I set about getting the basic settings right.. when this didnt work after testing and checking and adjusting, we had to delv deeper.. out came the dizzy.. dizzy drive was in the wrong place... so that was removed and refitted into the correct position.. reinstall the refurbed dizzy, time etc.. still no improvement... Luckily I had brought a near complete set of DJ wiring loom and ECU with me and was going to start the parts swapping, but light and frustation put paid to that... End of day one really and I was pretty frustrated at not getting it runing better at least..

After a few beers another cracking meal from May and a lot more vw chat... off to bed...

Woke up with renewed vigor to sort the issue.. and take it back further steps.. Out with ETOS and check what ECU etc should be fitted and a few other items..
Auto's have a different ECU to Mmanual DJ's.. (did you know that?)
Start to pull the ecu's out and find it has a manual ecu fitted, even the spare he has is a manual one.. ok, whats my spare one.. as luck would have it it was the auto one.. amazing..
Quick check of the igntion leads shows the new ones are all unbalanced in resistance and out of spec from what VW say.. refit all the old leads as these are in spec., refit the old coil as the replacement could not be identified as being correct and the numbers from testing the old one showed it to be ok. at each stage the engine ran better and better, but still kept missfiring.
OK.. lets stick on the spare dizzy I have, after removing the "refurbished" one and inspecting very closely, our assumption that it was "as new" was incorrect.. the hall sender wires were touching the segments as they spun and had worn through the insulation, also the advance side of the vac unit had a leak and allowed the advance to slip back.. typical.... fit the used dizzy (which was appeared to be fine) and time up.. start and running as good as it ever could.. a small tweak here and there and testing up and down the track to check all was well. the out up the main road for some real trys, big hills lots of stopping so if it was going to show any issues, it should then..

Doogies face said it all when he stepped out of the van at the top of the hill, a great big grin "its back, feels like a new van"

So.. what did we learn... Dont assume that the new part is ok, check that the replacement part is in fact the same part number, do reset things to where they are supposed to be and diagnose the problem logically.... oh and dont let any old tom dick or harry frell about with your van..
Another successful day in Toomanytoysville.... (hopefully that wont be famous last words eh!!!)

[treacle]

well i know who I'll be getting in touch with if i have a problem bet he was well pleased great job its not only vans we get wrong

[toomanytoys]

Were you trying to say summat Treacle??? Just reply, no need to "quote".......

[treacle]

Were you trying to say summat Treacle??? Just reply, no need to "quote".......

pressed wrong tab i think i have put it right

[toomanytoys]

It late... I totaly understand... I'm off up wooden hill now....

[Fritz]

Well that's another thing I have learned ( Auto ECU'S are different to Manual ecu's) besides a whole host of other stuff.......

Simon, you make it sound easy but I'm sure it took time to identify various faults contributing to the poor running on Douggies van........

Well done that man keep up the good work....

When are you going to open up a workshop doing what you love doing......


Regards


Fritz,,,,,,

[toomanytoys]

Your not wrong mate, figuring what they had "adjusted and what it effects it had was a bit of a nightmare.. 1 step forward and 2 steps back... but we got there eventually... I hope...

I'd love to open a workshop, but peeps would have to come to me.. and so far I dont reckon there are enough that will.. the overheads are the killer... if I could find something really cheap for a year or 2... great... I am afraid its only ever going to be a passion...

[syncrosimon]

I like your attitude Simon, we need a 10cent this side of the pond.

I do like things stock.

[Rozzo]

Your not wrong mate, figuring what they had "adjusted and what it effects it had was a bit of a nightmare.. 1 step forward and 2 steps back... but we got there eventually... I hope...

I'd love to open a workshop, but peeps would have to come to me.. and so far I dont reckon there are enough that will.. the overheads are the killer... if I could find something really cheap for a year or 2... great... I am afraid its only ever going to be a passion...

i think you're right m8. and the fact that they're sick vans means folks can't always come to you anyhow.
keep up the good work, you're making folks very happy

[toomanytoys]

I like your attitude Simon, we need a 10cent this side of the pond.

I do like things stock.

10cent and I have had some great chats... There are some items in the pipeline on a very similar theme.. testbed will be built in the next few weeks..

[Cafnod]

Hi Simon
Its sad that the people you did the work for have had to put so much time, money and emotion into their vehicle with someone who was unable to fix it.
I have had similar experience to yourself where I have gone to vehicles only to find replacement parts are either u/s, wrong or incorrectly fitted.
Sometimes the people who do the work have the best of intentions, unfortunately many do not and often they are unable to realise their mistakes.
A friend, like myself, who has left the motor trade summed up the majority of main dealers;
Oil change and a new filter and a run through with the diagnostic machine.
Not many of these 'experts' know what to do when the machine comes up fault code not known and, frighteningly just rob parts off cars on the forecourt until a vehicle runs, then charge for all the labour and all of the parts.
Recently I looked at a friends son in laws car, ageing Suzuki Swift, gets him to work and thats all he needs. It cut out, wouldnt restart for ages, went to Suzuki. £300 later they gave it back to him with no diagnosis.
I ran through usual checks after it got warm on a test drive and found coolant level low, topped it up and its been OK for three months now. Bottom line was they believed they were going to have to buy another car which they could not afford.
We bought our van with a brand new MOT, lots of work just done by a VW camper specialist, not a main dealer, it was picked up from the specialists premisses. Fifty miles later i/n/s CV joint exploded. Now the van had had a new gearbox fitted before it could be taken for MOT, I cannot believe that the 'specialist' had not pulled the boots back whilst doing the job and checked the CV joints for lubrication and wear. Nor had he properly tightened four of the bolts. I found six reasons to refuse the vehicle a certificate if I had been testing it including corrosion near a seat belt anchorage.
As a new member I wonder if I might have the temerity to suggest that someone like you starts a blog and then people whose knowledge is limited can follow problems and their solutions and hear of pitfalls that you have discovered when somebody believed they had arrived at a correct, though erroneous solution?

[Aidan]

a blog

erm this is it - technical q and a,
it's searchable and most q's will have been answered before, but we always say read the wiki, read the manual and test it by the book; there are test procedures laid down in Bentley that cover most things on the engine, except the carb engines, which are reasonably covered by Haynes and Russek, also the digifant manuals are available on line

you can't plug them into anything except an exhaust gas anyliser so you have to be able to diagnose yourself, so that rules out most mechanics under 30 now who grew up with obd

I spent 25 mins on the phone this morning with a customer (£5 cd) talking him and his supposed vw specialist mechanic through the differences between 5 and 4 speed petrol and diesel mounts and selector shafts and the setting up of the linkage. Specialist had fitted it all without the £3.50 protective boot and seemed suprised when I mentioned it and suggested it was like er quite important !

If they do Aircooled they probably don't do water well

[kevtherev]

I like your attitude Simon, we need a 10cent this side of the pond.

I do like things stock.

totally agree there, Do you mean tencentlife on samba?.of whom is the Vanagon guru on there.

well done Simon all this great work does not go unnoticed ..
seeing the grin of the customer with a fixed van, must be a good feeling.
er... what you doing with all that spare tat?

[Scotjock]

Hi,
Im the doogie in question, proud owner of a magnificently sorted 2.1 auto dj vision, and I have to say never have I seen such a dedicated, meticulous engineer, there was no way that van of mine wasnt gonna get fixed, and what a very very nice fella.

and Simon, I havent told you this yet, Im Keeping The Van, giving back the Mitsy, so it goes without saying, I and May are abslootley delighted and cant thank you enuff for your magnificent effort. Yes folks, until toomanytoys came to our little spot in the country, high oop pennines the van was all set to become someone elses problem, not any more.

80-90 readers, listen to Si's words of wisdom, and rest assured if you need help to get back on the road, hes one of the few, and most of them are in club 80-90, who know what these babies of ours are all about, but even he discovered that my particular model had some surprises not generally appreciated, for example, it doesnt have a Idle Stabilisation Unit, there are a couple of little dented marks on the bulkhead where it should be fitted where appropriate, but we now reckon, the auto box model, has a different ECU to overcome the need for ISU, (right or wrong??).

all in all a magic couple of days, in a magical place, with a magician ..... thanks again Si
All the very best
Doogie and May

[toomanytoys]

Hi praise indeed, Cheers Doogie and May, I just hope the old girl doesnt let me down now.....
Again thanks for all the hospitality and it was a pleasure meeting you both..

So in that case, maybe you should think about the run to the Cromer crab fest next weekend and I can give it a once over... maybe if you want a service and brake service.... You can stay at ours anytime...

Certainly a magical spot....

"tat" Kev?? Thats not tat, its a valuable resource.... (you should see the barn ........)

Oh and the Scooby spat its exhaust off today....... a bit of inginuity required to fix without resorting to a new 2nd cat... and the oil leak on the Syncro is getting worse.... Maybe I should take some time out and fix my own vehicles....