Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

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maxstu
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by maxstu »

Rascal, perhaps you should consider changing title? Just a thought as more interest comes along and CC is not totally black magic, and thanks to recent postings, alternative part are readily available in the UK.
MaxStu
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Club Joker
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by Club Joker »

Hi Maxstu,

You can get the part numbers from here.  Just find the year you are interested in and dig down from there.  It seems to go down quite often, but if you Google "ETKA online" you will find something similar.  If you click on the part number then it will take you into a list of other vehicles that use it.

Anyway, photos as promised...

Pedal brackets - just bent and folded some bits of metal I had spare and welded on a couple of nuts. Note  the pedals are different thicknesses, so make sure you check them both!

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Looking at the photos now, I should probably have flipped the clutch bracket around and got both the pedal switches tucked away under the shroud, but they are quite neatly tucked away.

Switch mounts (Brickwerks), also showing the nuts holding them in place.

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Landrover P38 pump and switch mounted in engine bay.  This is on an AGG (8v GTI) engine.  I have mounted the diaphragm directly on the engine. I did this by welding part of the Landrover bracket it came with to the AGG throttle cable mount that bolts to the inlet manifold.  It just about squeezes under the deck lid!

The pump is mounted to the engine bay wall, with just the vacuum hose connecting the two.  This has plenty of flex, so vibration is not an issue.

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The P38 pump comes with a cable attached, so I cut this down and modified the throttle linkage  to accept it. You can see the two cables running side by side here- 

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If you squeeze the diaphragm by hand, the throttle cable just flexes out of the way, but stays securely mounted.

Physically I think it is all fine, just need to sort the electrics out.  Once you have the bits in front of you, the mounting etc. becomes a lot more obvious.  The only thing I found was that the pump and diaphragm were a bit larger than I had in mind.

Finally, here is a shot of the original indicator / control stalk.

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Last thing is that the set I bought came from an automatic, so the wiring is slightly different.  There is a relay that something on the gear selector activates I think (on the auto).  With the manual version, this is swapped out for the clutch pedal switch. 

I would take a picture of the loom, but I am afraid it is all tucked away under the dash - sorry!

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maxstu
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by maxstu »

Oh no! A relay is back in the mix again :run
Rascal, change the title back again!

However l would like to get to the bottom of this relay (yes/no) issue. Especially as l have an Auto.

Im no good at reading electrical diagrams. So the one posted by Rascal Ive cropped at the area l need help.

The main horizontal cable for instance. lt shows wires from control box merging with CC stalk switch, brake lever vacuum switch and back light switch with cable going behind fuse/relay panel. Then an independent wire from brake light switch (why showing two?) to behind fuse/relay panel. What is happening here? Would anyone explain to me how l should put together a loom for this bit please?

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Forden, thanks so much for all the info and photos. My search for parts is moving forward thanks to you. So far l have:
VW vacuum pump with lots of piping and three way connectors
VW Control box
Waiting delivery on:
Jag XJ40 actuator pump £24
VVS from a club member £20
Passat B5 vacuum/electric brake switch £15
Nuts £3.50
Ive decided to buy a hand held vacuum tester too. £17

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Titus A Duxass
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by Titus A Duxass »

I'm loving this thread. 
Cruise control is something that I've been yearning after for my GTi van. 

It'll help with the 6 hour sprints across Germany. 
VW T3 GTi Camper 2,0l

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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by Rascal »

Image
here is the diagram for the auto setup. without looking into it i imagine it is there so cruise only activates when you are in drive or something like that. its a safety measure as its inline with the brake vent switch to stop the system so in theory  you could just ignore it (i.e jump it it would also explain why yours is not functioning), obviously not ideal  but the worst that would happen is you could activate cruise in REVERSE OR IN PARK AND NEUTRAL ??  but touching the break would still stop it. (this is all based on my assumption of its purpose being correct )


As for my pesky relay this is all i can find about it  from a german forum google translated, they suggest its a pulse doubler. did the output from the speedo change at some point? they also mention navigation ?? (mine being a 1990 alleged Hannover edition something I have yet to prove although it does have all the correct trim etc I cant find an M numbers for Hannover editions. are they all bluestars whitestars etc which have s numbers ? or can it just be a hannover edition  but thats a different thread.
Image

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Titus A Duxass
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by Titus A Duxass »

Hi Rascal, 
Can you post a link to the Bus Freunde thread, I've tried searching for it but get no results. 
I'll read through the original thread and see what I can glean from the info. 
VW T3 GTi Camper 2,0l

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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by syncroandy »

Re. the difference between auto/manual CCS wiring is simply that in the auto, J60 (normally-closed four pin relay) is substituted in place of F36 (clutch pedal switch).

As already mentioned, the factory CCS wiring diagrams do not show any 'pulse doubler' relay. Possibly its some sort of factory 'bodge', as there were 'early' and 'late' speedos/speed senders, and their characteristics may have differed. But that's not documented in the normal wiring diagrams.

HTH
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by Rascal »


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maxstu
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by maxstu »

Thanks to Rascal and syncroandy for diadram and explaination.

Simply put..with an Auto, l can forget relay bit as long as l keep foot on brake pedal when activating neutral/park/reverse? Which l do anyway...

As lm opting for the early Subaru switch gear (at present) which has an ONE/OFF separate switch and a CC stalk then l should be safe. :lol:
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1989 DJ 2.1 Auto Leisuredrive rusty bucket.
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by syncroandy »

Personally, if I was retrofitting CCS to an auto T3, I would wire it with J60. Any relay with a normally-closed pair of contacts would do. Often these are the 5-pin variety, and the normally-closed contacts are pin '30' and '87a'. Referring to the above diagram, connection 'a' goes to terminal 50 from the ignition switch, and 'b' goes to the brake lamp circuit. eg: relay pin connections:

85 - X-terminal
86 - Terminal 50
30 - F47 brake pedal switch
87a - E46/3 (CCS module)
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by Rascal »

Wasting time at work today I stumbled upon this
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It looks of the period.. And even appears to have the same 4 pin plug as the vw..
Iv already foud a wiring diagram for it and it appears to be easily adapted to clamp to the coloum.
Image
I like that the cc plug is separate although if you wanted you could use it as a complete replacment for the indicator and light stalk as it is just exposed spade connectors for the rest... Now the chances that the pins are in the correct order are slim but are easily reordered in the plug Bought it for £30 delivered from the USA.. How it works out won't know till its here, But at the very least would be useful even for testing..

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maxstu
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by maxstu »

That looks smart. I think l will stay with the Sub set up with an extra stalk and on/off switch. That way l dont mess with indicators or high beam.

Thanks to both for additional infomation and wiring diagrams. If only l could comprehend it... :oops: lt doesnt compute in my brain unfortunately. Wiring has always been my weakspot...took me 4 hours to wire in a navigator flex lamp above passenger seat! I took a feed from slide door. Yet could understand why it didnt work. Then on shutting the sliding door got power to lamp! :roll:

But lm determined to give this a go. And lm sure this forum with give me plenty of guidance.

More info attached to guide other forum users'


https://www.reflectionsandshadows.com/cruise/

https://www.vwforum.com/threads/cruise- ... air.39805/
MaxStu
1989 DJ 2.1 Auto Leisuredrive rusty bucket.
"Blissfully happy in your presence".

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maxstu
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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by maxstu »

Up to date on parts.
VSS, Brake switch, actuator and nuts delivered today.
Briefly tested actuator and switch ( sucking actuator and blowing closed switch). Both seem okay and holding human lung pressure. But the actuator bellow feels a little brittle and dry. No cracking though. Is there anything l can treat it with?

Image

Not sure about the nuts. The thread looks totally different me. I suspect they will make their own up the plastic thread with enough to hold in place. But likely knacker thread. Will have a look in garage over next few days.
MaxStu
1989 DJ 2.1 Auto Leisuredrive rusty bucket.
"Blissfully happy in your presence".

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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by Forden341 »

Just found a genuine pedal switch on EBay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313337686351

Seems they never had lock nuts but sort of a captive threaded sleeve. Just posting pics for curiosity value really.

ImageImage

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Re: Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

Post by Rascal »

forgot to mention that my pump and diaphram arrived last week, so did  initial testing and all works well. it then occured to me you could easily wire up a rocker switch for  +. - speed by simply momentarily activating the pump or momentarily relasing the holding relay.. just a thought if you are using a Subaru stalk zs that has the  + - buttons  would just need investigating wiring wise.
now just waiting for my stalk. and  loom and  ecu ..

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