Very over heated DG engine, is there any hope?

[Rich Tea]

I think my engine (1.9 DG) has totally expired post an unannounced over heating event on Saturday. The van has practically been my daily transport for the last 3 weeks, as I've been refurbing the interior and had new wishbone bushes fitted, so is especially surprising and gutting. .

Here's what happened

Without warning it coughed and spluttered and let out a load of steam / smoke whilst heading down the M5. The temp guage had moved a little further to the right than normal but the fan came on the temp had dropped back to normal just before failure. I pulled in and turned the engine off but it wouldn't stop. The carb was covered in oil so I assume it had sucked a load of oil in from the breather and was running on engine oil rather than petrol. It stopped after I pulled off the HT leads (I don't know if that helped or not but it did stop). All the water had departed the engine, I assume via the water jacket seal as when I put some water in later, it ran freely from the right hand side and dripped slowly from the left side. The oil pressure sensor melted and the plastic cap was dangling on the cable underneath. No warning lights came on prior to any of this and fluid levels were good a couple of days before.

I like to canvas a little advice (and perhaps sympathy) from those in the know, about whether anything can be done for the old engine (I'm guessing it's had it), or is it a new engine.

Also, any thoughts on what might have initiated the failure gratefully received.
Thanks
Rich

[billy739]

even if you managed to sort it it would never be reliable.

[Ian Hulley]

Agreed, it's scrap.

Ian

[Rich Tea]

Thanks guys, i was prepared for the worst but could help holding on to the last glimmer of hope. It didn't look good from the start.

I'm interested to know if was the engine that failed, or do you think there could be a problem with the cooling system, as I wouldn't want a repeat performance once the engine gets replaced. Are there any definitive checks I can make to tell which failed first.

With repsect to the way forward, I'm assuming that on cost and simplicity a recon is the right way forward. Second hand is going to a very risky option I guess and I'm assuming an engine conversion is an expensive way to go (and no so easy to graft into a DG)?

Recon wise, the likely candidates look like: -
RemTec
Elite
VEGE
TES

I've found some good long theads on Elite, but not to much on the others, are there any to avoid?

Sorry for the many questions.

Cheers for your time.

Rich

[camper]

even if you managed to sort it it would never be reliable.

Agree the WBX engine seem a bag of worms .Why not replace with an inline engine such as VW 2e as found in a sharan .The replacement for this engine has been discussed in the alternative engine forum.

[Ian Hulley]

A well-serviced WBXer is a lovely engine, especially the 2.1 . You look at the ads for the Sharon and many say 'New engine at ***** miles' ... you are of course entitled to you opinion.

Ian.

[billy739]

remember even with a new engine you will need to add more parts.

heat is not good to alot of parts and tgey will add up.

2nd hand ok is not gaurenteed, but usually means you get a turnkey engine that can be fitted and running in about 1.5 hrs out and in.

unless anything is obvious with the cooling system you can only fit a new engine and see

unfortunatly this may mean an unexperienced person could damage even you new engine so be careful!

[camper]

I wouldnt disagree that a well maintaned WBX is a lovely engine.But for reliabilty replacement parts used by some engine reconditioners are questionable .There is the cylinder water jacket seal leakage problem thats been discussed it seems its an engine that a home rebuild may not get it reliable .I would rather spend time and money on an inline VW petrol engine as suggested a 2E straight forward rebuild which also has a good power output.Also the cooling system on these engines only requirement are 1.6n/td hoses.A person with some experiance on an engine change may have less hassle with a inline engine then installing a wbx & a B****lls up with its cooling system.

[Rich Tea]

Glad to see the Forum's back up and running after last night's problems.

Hum, so I need to take a good look and see what other bits might be damaged from the heat before I plump for recon, are there any specific bits which are at risk?

I had a look at the forum regarding the sharan swap, It's not something I'd attempt myself, but if there were a garage that could do it at a decent price I might consider it, or something similar.

A second hand engine route seems tempting on cost, but my wife is really keen on reliability, she didn't enjoy the motorway breakdown experience one little bit . I think I'd be willing to risk it as long as I'm a paid up AA memberand but my wife keeps talking about selling the van so another breakdown could be an issue. I guess no one would give a warranty on a second hand unit.

I guess if I buy secondhand I'd try to fit it myself (assuming I can get the back end of the van high enough with my limited facilities). If I go for a recon I think I'd have a garage do it for warranty and piece of mind.

Are there any good second hand units about?

I notice all the recon places have a surcharge, although not all are that clear about how much that is, does anyone have any idea how much they typically charge and what sort of things are problems for them? i.e am I likely to get stung for more than I'm expecting.

Cheers

Rich

[kevtherev]

I bought a used engine from syncrospares, I had complete trust in his description as he is a member of the club with a reputation to keep.
My good mate shepster bought his engine from transporcher on the Brickyard website, only he travelled to bristol to see and drive it.
Both engines were 2.1 which is an option for you too.

My point is buying from trusted members and traders is much safer than e-bay or what ever
You might want to bear this in mind when buying another WBX engine.

Buying a refurbished/reconditioned/repaired one gives you a warranty and or a guarantee.

A full overhaul of the cooling system should be done to eliminate this happening again. (my monies on a blockage in the radiator, burst pipe or a thermostat failure)

PS
shepster has still got his old 1.9 DG in the garage, A well serviced engine with 140,000 on the clock.
I think he wanted about £200 for it, it was working when removed with a little weep from the jacket gasket.

[ghost123uk]

I'm interested to know if was the engine that failed, or do you think there could be a problem with the cooling system, as I wouldn't want a repeat performance once the engine gets replaced. Are there any definitive checks I can make to tell which failed first.

Could be a whole load of reasons.

Check =

The "Dalek" header tank pressure release Cap is working as it should (should be able to blow down the pipe one way but not the other) - if in doubt get a new one from Brickwerks (NOT GSF or Just Kampers)

Replace or at least test the thermostat.

Any of the thinner of the rubber cooling hoses and any of the thin metal pipes in the engine bay can get totally blocked, starving a head of coolant. (this was the cause of the death of my DG a couple of years ago)

My concern though is that the low water warning light & buzzer did not come on as the water level dropped.
This is controlled by a pair of probes in the top of the white header tank and a thing that looks like a relay numbered 43 on the fuse panel. I would deffo get that checked out before setting off when you get a new motor fitted.

With repsect to the way forward, I'm assuming that on cost and simplicity a recon is the right way forward. Second hand is going to a very risky option I guess and I'm assuming an engine conversion is an expensive way to go (and no so easy to graft into a DG)?

The obvious choices are =

An Elite "re-con" - £1000 including fitted by them = best choice for the warranty rather than "DIY" fitting, esp in view of what happened to you - they will take your motor in for P/X

An alternative motor as in a 1.8 Golf / Passat / Scirocco "EX" carb type motor [E D I T can you fit a DX K-Jetronic injection motor in there ?] (you need some bits of a scrapped 1.6 Diesel T25 = cross member, sump, exhaust, and a couple of other bits= not that hard to find, a "wanted" or scrap yard search will get you them). If ever I need a new motor I think I will go this route. Those engines are very reliable, cheap to buy and to maintain and the conversion would be much less than any of the other choices other than a 2nd hand DG

A Scooby conversion, not THAT much dearer than the Elite "Re-Con" considering the gains

A "Wanted" on here for a known good used DG (I would NOT ever chance buying one off ebay by the way)

Good luck

[Rich Tea]

Thanks for the replies guys,

I went down the yard and checked the van out a little more yesterday, It looks like I will need a few additional bits as the plastic thermostat housing looks a little charred around the flange. The oil breather has a sort of plastic candy floss around the flange and some of the sheaving on the looms were quite degraded where the touched the engine, at least one wire will require a good length of heat shrink on it. The hoses that join the heads look a little the worse for wear.

At least the foul smell of burnt oil is no longer evident in the cabin.

Darlek cap should be ok, as it was a new VW one and is less than a year old, equally the level sensor was replaced last year as was the expansion tank.

I'm going to have to have a good think over the next few days about the right forward for me. Although an interesting prospect, I'm not sure if an engine conversion is right for me, there's plenty of people on here that say it's easy, but they're probably cleverer or more experienced than me. If I were to attempt it I'd need to be sure I had all the parts required and probably a step by step manual to boot. I guess no one sells such a comprehensive kit.

Lots to think about, I'll let you know which route I choose.

Rich

[kevtherev]

Engine offer still stands BTW
I had a word with my pal and he's happy to sell

[lamb125]

Having just read your misfortune, maybe someone could shed light on this incident? Yesterday as we were about 10 mins into a journey to Chichester on the M27 the red warning light starting flashing!!! This has never happened before. The needle was just left of vertical. I pulled off the road into an industrial estate and prepared myself for the worst. No apparent smell (than normal anyway), no dripping fluid,etc.

What I did though was to push the heater levers back to the on/hot position (for the first time in 9 months on this occasion I'd slid them to the off position before we began our trip). As we set off the light went out and we proceeded with our journey without a hitch. What I did, however, was to experiment with the heater controls whilst driving and did notice that the temp gauge did climb with the heater controls slid shut....hmmm

[ghost123uk]

@ lamb125 - sounds like an airlock to me, look in the wiki re bleeding and do that I reckon. (note = do it with the heater controls in the on & hot position)