Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

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spanishfly
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Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by spanishfly »

Does anyone have any idea if Vw rebuilt DJ engines were often line bored in the UK?

Reason I ask is that the DJ in my RHD syncro has  '1 .960' and a 'vw' logo in a circle stamped into the base of the oil breather tower and '3495' either side of the bell housing whilst the Vin ends 1599. Am I correct in thinking the numbers would originally have tallied?

If so does this indicate a vw rebuilt engine has been fitted rather than any other rebuilder?

The engine appears to have lowish oil pressure (flickering light and BOD when hot) but no other bad signs, obviously new AMC heads, doesn't smoke, no oil in water nor leaks so am wondering before removing it if Vw routinely line bored cases? If so would it follow that the lack of NLA oversized shells would make a rebuild more difficult? Can I tell by somehow testing before dropping it if?

Suffering from reading too many threads perhaps.. :roll:
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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by Aidan »

afaik bell housing stamps are just showing that the case halves are a matched pair, the numbers bear no reference to the vehicle number;
all the VW exchange engines I had in 2005/6/7 had a stamp on the face under the breather tower 2 digits either side of the VW recycle stamp that translated as a week year eg 26 05, the heads were VW castings and the heads had an actual date stamp and what I took to be the initials of the builder on them, I believe they were built in Poland, I believe at Poznan

However I have seen evidence on gearboxes of the VW recycle stamp being used on what I believe maybe UK refurbished boxes but I don't know who by, and I am pretty certain are not genuine VW but fakes (no gasket  on reverse switch housing for example, and I have seen plenty of genuine VW rebuilt boxes and know what they did inside and these didn't); VW gearboxes for our vehicle were afaik rebuilt for VW by STEC in Austria, a company spun out of Steyr in the creation of MagnaPowertrain

So maybe your engine is a UK rebuild, possibly by the same company that did the gearboxes I have seen. It's possible that Milton Keynes did get into bed with someone in the UK to do rebuilt stuff for local market; trouble is 'commercial confidentiality' means that no one who might know (Mark at JK or David at Heritage etc..) will tell the tale and weirdly the people who actually did the work have never surfaced as VW T3 owners and lovers, it was just a job to them and they would be surprised that people were actually interested in what and who and how :?

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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by ajsimmo »

I suppose you could remove the transmission, clutch, flywheel, oil seal, shims & thrust bearing, and measure the diameter of the rear main bearing/carrier. Alternatively you could do the same at the front by removing the pulley, oil seal, key, oil thrower etc, but it's more recessed and not as easy to measure. They were line bored in 0.5mm increments so may not be too difficult to distinguish with digital calipers.
But why bother? If the engine is low on oil pressure, why are you reluctant to remove it? Surely it's better to do so, rather than risk a rod through the side - the ultimate fate of many a DJ with low oil pressure. If the case has previously been line bored you could buy another case.

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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by 937carrera »

Can you be a bit more precise on your oil pressure problem.

The mention of the oil light flickering when hot and BOD may be indicative of a number of things

On the BOD side, what switch is fitted ? 0.9, 1.4 or 1.8 bar. They should be colour coded, and the switch could be out of spec

On the flickering I assume this is on tickover when hot, but it is worth asking you to confirm

What oil and filter are you using

Simple things first....... oil pressure gauge and temperature probe next
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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by davidoft1 »

They would over size cranks, barrels etc where required, they have oversize spec in the manuals

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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by itchyfeet »

Big ends and bearings are often ok. so even if line bored you might be OK reusing bearings.
Cam bearing usually knackered.
I Rebuilt a DJ with all new bearings but still has lower oil pressure than I'd like, only just in spec and I think it could be tappet bores worn. nobody sleeves them it seems.
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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by ajsimmo »

itchyfeet wrote:Big ends and bearings are often ok. so even if line bored you might be OK reusing bearings.
Cam bearing usually knackered.
I Rebuilt a DJ with all new bearings but still has lower oil pressure than I'd like, only just in spec and I think it could be tappet bores worn. nobody sleeves them it seems.
Remember once you've removed a big end cap to have a look, you can't just put it back due to the single use stretch bolts. At the least you'll be replacing those bolts with non-stretch, or replacing the rods with new. If replacing, you'd certainly be putting new bearing shells in.
If there's marginal hot oil pressure now, both at idle and at 2k, I doubt you'd find the mains were good, and would you want to put worn oversize bearings back in?
Perhaps another approach is called for, like improving oil pressure by fitting a better pump, cooling the oil, and checking the grade. I'd be using at least a 15w50, maybe 20w50.
Another thought Paul, remember your results with the cheap hydro tappets? Didn't you put the old ones back and get better oil pressure? Maybe a new set of KS jobbies might help...

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itchyfeet
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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by itchyfeet »

Sorry I meant main bearings not big ends😂
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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by spanishfly »

Thanks for the feedback really appreciate the time and expertise given!

Started looking at this a while back, fixed rat harness damage, changed  Oil 15w50 Titan, new filter, new sender, now fitted remotely using BW kit, replaced spring acting on piston under oil pump which doesn't look to have been changed. Replaced circuit board from on back of rev counter? DOPS.

All gave incremental improvements but 15 mins ticking over or 15 miles driving trigger buzzer and flashing light. To be more accurate flickering is the wrong word. Light comes on then disappears with revs as you would expect, so rather than risk damage van has been resting and anyway CoVid got in the way.

I'd really like to get it working properly  hence post. 

Reading around this threw up the line boring question. Trying to understand and grasp the bigger picture and work out if it's feasible to rebuild my self or if I need an expert.   

Lack of a suitably dry work space combined with a large dollop of ignorance could be a bit problematic. 

In the meantime wondering about a famous Mansi pump as a last resort before dropping it though I'm sure I've read he's counselled against counting on his pump to provide a cure for border line low pressure problems?  :roll:
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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by 937carrera »

I'll ask the question again.... what rating is the "high" pressure switch on the back of the engine ?

That's the one that will be the trigger for the buzzer.

If however the oil light is on after 15 minutes of idling from cold, which might be what you are saying, then you have low oil pressure before the engine is even up to temperature, in which case it's time for a proper oil pressure check before the final step of dropping for a rebuild
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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by silverbullet »

Not forgeting that oversize bearings for the later "thin shell" main bearings are NLA, so that's going to be the end for a lot of worn cases that have been driven to death and hammered their mains out.
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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by davidoft1 »

silverbullet wrote: 05 Sep 2020, 15:32 Not forgeting that oversize bearings for the later "thin shell" main bearings are NLA, so that's going to be the end for a lot of worn cases that have been driven to death and hammered their mains out.

You can have them made independently if enough people needed them, no doubt over time the will become available again

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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by ajsimmo »

But who's going to hang on to all the line bored cases while we wait? Chances are they'll mostly have been weighed in by then.

Although there may be a magical oversize bearing tree growing somewhere in Essex, as one well-known company's website states:

"All engines receive (as standard):
...
Crack tested engine case, inline bored for oversize bearings"

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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by spanishfly »

It seems I probably fitted a grey behind the flywheel and the relocated one between the heads is blue. I'll get underneath and remove it/check properly on Monday and note time to buzzer more accurately. I see where your question is leading maybe should be white in the DOPS circuit 1989 van...!  
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Re: Did Vw Line bore there own stamped DJ rebuilds?

Post by 937carrera »

The year doesn't make any difference, except to what the factory originally fitted. https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/brickwerks-blog/vw-t3-oil-pressure-switches/

The grey one is the lower 0.9 bar rating.

If the DOPS system is sounding the buzzer at 2000 rpm and the idiot light is coming on at hot idle, then the chances of it not being low oil pressure are pretty low.

I would still be tempted to do an oil pressure check before dropping the engine though. You can use the water temp gauge as a surrogate for oil temperature. I assume you are not currently using it ?
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