A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Big lumps of metals and spanners. Including servicing and fluids.

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maxstu
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by maxstu »

Thought it would advise in Bentley manual?

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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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Either I am blind or I don't see anything about installing head studs into a case.
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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I dont have a Bentley to hand. But throughout engine rebuild chapter it often states bearing adhesive or locking agent, apply Dirko etc.
If nothing, then, where it states torque settings and nothing else...well erm....nothing needed l guess. :oops:
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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Oh yeah I know there is the sealant and stuff on studs nuts/washers and such, just nothing about the head stud threads I guess it can effect torque values so might not be the best thing to do. I vaguely (probably incorrectly) recalling a post from Marco on the samba I think about applying stuff onto threads, but as I said I could be making that up or mis-remembering!
 
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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There's no torque values given in any of my manuals afaics. In, down tight, and thread locked is my standard. I always put a loctite type sealant on the threads, as they sit in coolant and are dissimilar metals which will corrode. One other check is the stud depth when fitted. It must be correct, as too long (not deep enough into the case hole) and the head nut could bottom out, failing to clamp tight enough and twisting the stud. Too deep and it may indicate a loose thread in the case/badly drilled n tapped/helicoiled, and could reduce the number of threads in effective use in the head nut, which could be bad news.

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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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ajsimmo wrote: 08 Mar 2021, 21:11 There's no torque values given in any of my manuals afaics. In, down tight, and thread locked is my standard. I always put a loctite type sealant on the threads, as they sit in coolant and are dissimilar metals which will corrode. One other check is the stud depth when fitted. It must be correct, as too long (not deep enough into the case hole) and the head nut could bottom out, failing to clamp tight enough and twisting the stud. Too deep and it may indicate a loose thread in the case/badly drilled n tapped/helicoiled, and could reduce the number of threads in effective use in the head nut, which could be bad news.

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Will look up some loctite stuff, although wont that make removing them again more of a bugger? not that I want to be removing them anytime soon! was just concerned as you say dissimilar metals plus coolant so didn't want to a*** it up.
 
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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You'll never be taking them out - that's down to the next guy/gal in 20 or 30 years (if you do a good job now ).

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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »

That's a fair point. ;)

What colour loctite would you recommend? as I see there are different strengths. 

E D I T, after a bit of reading figured the blue should suffice.  :ok
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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Yes, blue.

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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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So todays a mixed bag of spanners. Got the case halves back from the engine shop for those broken studs, cost me £120
They'd taken out all the mating studs on the case aside from one which they said wouldn't shift. It was bent so much I couldn't put the case back together.. Rang the chap the second I realized and he said just use a mallet on it as they are quite flexible :shock: . I heated it a bit and put a pipe on it to bend it back into place, the case now fits but it still catches  :evil:.
Some of the studs have had the threads flattened a bit I guess from using an extractor on them.
The head studs themselves have been drilled out and helicoiled, I've yet to test fit the new set of studs as I was busy faffing with the bent stud and fitting all the others back where they should be. 
Also looks like instead of backing one of the studs out they tightened it in on the bottom of the case as one of the fins has been damaged and you can clearly see the stud mark/indentation in the aluminum.  :|  :roll:

I have a feeling this all just got a lot more complicated than it needed to be.  
I guess I gotta get a thread chaser / die now to fix these studs. I think I have some but not sure they are the correct type.
Christ...
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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That's a bit of a tough one to swallow, Stesaw. But all l can say is these things do cause a temporary hurdle. And you are not alone! It's however one of the many joys of owning a classic vehicle. You will get over it and push on with better results, lm sure.

:ok

It reminds me of the car sprayer using the wrong colour white on my camper some years back. He was adamant it was the colour we agreed! After a bit of argy he agreed to respray correct colour if l pay for the new paint. Okay l said.
As l was leaving l noticed a MG partly covered with a dust sheet. But what part l did see showed the exact same colour white he had sprayed my camper.
The cheeky bugger!
Keep the faith, my friend.
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by ajsimmo »

Sorry to hear about the stud malarky. Just check those helicoils have been done nicely and don't encroach into the sealing area for the barrel bottom ring.

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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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ajsimmo wrote: 12 Mar 2021, 10:41 Sorry to hear about the stud malarky. Just check those helicoils have been done nicely and don't encroach into the sealing area for the barrel bottom ring.

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That will be my task for today as well as cleaning up the mating surfaces and blow through the oil passages.

I was thinking of assembling the crank but after reading the Bentley manual it says not to use a ratchet type torque wrench for the rod bolts, and guess what type of wrench I have.
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

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maxstu wrote: 11 Mar 2021, 20:18 That's a bit of a tough one to swallow, Stesaw. But all l can say is these things do cause a temporary hurdle. And you are not alone! It's however one of the many joys of owning a classic vehicle. You will get over it and push on with better results, lm sure.

:ok

It reminds me of the car sprayer using the wrong colour white on my camper some years back. He was adamant it was the colour we agreed! After a bit of argy he agreed to respray correct colour if l pay for the new paint. Okay l said.
As l was leaving l noticed a MG partly covered with a dust sheet. But what part l did see showed the exact same colour white he had sprayed my camper.
The cheeky bugger!
Keep the faith, my friend.

Well yeah was a bit of a set back wasnt impressed that they just left that stud bent and damaged the case, then was told to hit the stud with a mallet to straighten it. Could have at least set the stud back how it was when I took it to them.

I should have checked everything there and then when collecting but I didn't. I'm far too trusting mainly because these guys do that stuff for a living so know what they are doing and I'd expect them to do a good job.
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Re: A Numpty and his 2.1 Project

Post by Stesaw »

Annnnnnnnyway

Image New Woodruff Key and bearing on. Yes I had to tap the key a bit more to get it level, I found that out when fitting the timing gear :lol:
Talking of which;
ImageFitted on all went smoothly aside from my first attempt at the timing gear due to the woodruff key and not enough heat. When fitting this gear make sure that the groove/recess in the one side of the gear goes towards the bearing.
If you are wondering what I used to heat the gear evenly: 
ImageFirst use that had in about 15 years! still had gas as well so that was nice.
Image
Don't forget to remove this little git from the flywheel and replace it, this was like plastic. The flywheel isn't grooved that much, there is a mark there as you can see but my nail doesn't catch it when running a finger over it so I don't think it need a sleeve.

ImageHey wow what happened here???  :D 
As you can or cannot see some of the stud threads are a bit mullered, ran over them with a nut and some oil going back and forth carefully to clean them up as I don't have a die/tap that will fit. As I wasn't planning to remove all of these studs I never took a detailed picture of them, it was a bugger when I got them back because looking through the Bentley manual and figure out what went where was a bit of trial and error. I think I got them all right as when I put the case together they all have enough thread on them with none sticking way out or not enough out, if that makes sense. As much as the initial "bugger they bent one" and then the straightening out of said stud, finding where they all went was actually kinda enjoyable... I mean what's another job right? maybe I am a masochist.  :roll:

Got all the new bearings on the crank, made sure all the bearings were aligned right with the tangs seated right and also the number 4 bearing has to have the oil groove towards the pulley and also has to lign up with the locating dowel in the case which was slightly fiddly. One thing I forgot to put on next to the number one main was the thrust washer. Got to remember to plonk it on when I do it all for real!                           

Enough of that anyway, I finally unwrapped the new shiney cam (thanks Andrew) Plonked in the new bearing shells had to dig out a fine file to file down the one tang that needs to be removed. When doing that I ended up putting some thick tape over the bearing to make sure I didn't damage or file anywhere that would have caused a problem. 

Now this is a test fit so I won't be bolting anything down yet, as the rods have to go on and I am awaiting the gasket set. When spinning the crank the cam follows nicely and doesn't lift out at all. There is no clunking at all and it's all very smooth. I haven't measured backlash yet because I misplaced my feelers.. I did find them but was losing light and getting hungry so I will do that tomorrow!

ImageMade sure to get the gears lined up, not that It matters I suppose for a test fit though. Oiled up bearing contact surfaces and put the other case half on, yes I remembered the other bearing shell halves!. Case half went on nice and snug nothing seemed to have pinched. Couldn't get my hand in the case to turn it by hand as I'm a weed so I put the pulley nut on and just turned it with a spanner. All span fine, granted I didn't have anything bolted down just push fitted. Should it spin really easily without much force when the halves are together or should there be some weight to it?

Don't think I've forgotten anything. Tomorrow all being well I will tackle the rod installation, I did wipe them all down with petrol and some rags so they are nice and shiney now, currently all sitting in some clean oil. Although with that do I need to get another torque wrench for those or could I get away with my ratchet type one. 


 
1985 LeisureDrive 1.9DG 5 Speed- Syncro project.. soon.. ish..
1987 Syncro JX- Donor

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