WBXmayo

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by itchyfeet »

https://www.vwheritage.com/025109021b-c ... genuine-vw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.coolairvw.co.uk/Item/Shop_b ... r-CB-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by itchyfeet »

and then there is this...looks like an Aircooled cam
link from Andrew at campershack

https://www.ahnendorp.com/VW-WBX-waterb ... -292-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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937carrera
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by 937carrera »

Thanks for that. Seems to confirm my fears having looked on those sites for CU components, VW camshafts no longer available for the CU engine :( the issue being unknown (to me at least) quality of modern replacements.

Lucky I have a spare engine and a half

It'll be interesting to see what thought process you go through in identifying the camshaft you are going to use. I'll enjoy reading the thread in the meantime. :)
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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937carrera
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by 937carrera »

itchyfeet wrote:Sorry no I can't Aircooled is all new to me :D

.....and so much easier, none of that pesky coolant and a french horn shaped exhaust system to deal with :)
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by itchyfeet »

937carrera wrote:
itchyfeet wrote:Sorry no I can't Aircooled is all new to me :D

.....and so much easier, none of that pesky coolant and a french horn shaped exhaust system to deal with :)

yeh but you wont be getting 112+ BHP without some serious mods, this DJ will have that as standard.
And my heating works :lol:
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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937carrera
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by 937carrera »

... I thought I would leave the heating comment for you to make, you didn't see that I have a WBX too :wink: I'll admit that it is nice having a proper heater when the temperatures are low, the type 4 engines never did give out much heat anyway.

Back to building the DJ :). I'll be happy with 70+ hp from the CU, I think it's more like 20 at the moment :cry:
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by itchyfeet »

937carrera wrote:...1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine:

didn't spot that, is it a DF or a DG?
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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937carrera
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by 937carrera »

Both :D :?:

The van originally had a DG. It was replaced with a DF (according to the invoice and case) but retains the DG inlet and a Weber carb plus the original plumbing.

It's strange, I didn't think the DF engine was sold in the UK, from what I found out the DF appears to be a German spec engine, detuned with smaller valves and a different camshaft, so where did the case come from for the builder (can't remember who). Either way it's quite torquey and seems to go well for a supposed 60 HP engine. Big hills of course are a challenge.
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by itchyfeet »

Back to the Camshaft.


The discussion on a well known social media site resulted in the CB 2252 being suggested as a good cam for MV with 1.25 ratio rockers, lots of people in US have done this it seems.


The DJ seems to be untested, with the higher compression ratio and the combination of 2252 an 1.25 rockers.
With the standard 1.1 ratio rockers the 2252 is slightly less lift than the standard 2.1cam which has over 8mm lift.
Possible to fit it and try 1.25 ratio rockers later, they can be removed if it doesn't run well.

The 2252 specs are
Suitable for Hydraulic tappets
http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2252.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Adv. Duration 270°
Dur. @ .050" 214°
Lift @ cam .298" (7.6mm)
Lift w/1.1:1 Rocker Arms .327" (8.3mm)
This new series of Eagle Camshafts will drop right into the new Type 1 and 2 air cooled hydraulic engines. This Eagle Camshaft can be used with OEM hydraulic lifters, push rods, valve springs, and stock carburetion.

CB2253 (sold by VW heritage)
Suitable for Hydraulic tappets
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2253.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Adv. Duration 298°
Dur. @ .050" 242°
Lift @ cam .324" (8.3mm)
Lift w/1.1:1 Rocker Arms .356" (9.04mm)

Apparently the increased duration of the 2253 makes it worse on idle and low down torque it's more designed for revs.

High Performance Eagle Hydraulic Camshafts are classified as high performance cams and should be used with dual carburetion or fuel injection. These cams have faster ramps and require the use of Hi-Rev Hydraulic Lifters, chromoly push rods, and hi-rev valve springs. Engine performance to 6500 RPM is easily attainable with the right combination of parts.

These are both 3 rivet Aircooled cams so require 3 bolt Aircooled cam gears ( only one size) and oil pumps.

There is the elusive Vanistan/Chris corkins/tencentlife adapter for our four rivet WBX gears ( remove from your old cam) but not really available here it seems.
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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937carrera
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by 937carrera »

On the camshaft choice have a think about what you are trying to achieve, peak power or a strong torque curve.

Peak power gives bragging rights from a rolling road, the 2253 will have a narrower power band and need to be kept in that band whereas a less aggressive cam will give better low down pulling power and will be an easier drive, more flexible in the gears.

You pay your money & take your choice :)
1981 RHD 2.0 Aircooled Leisuredrive project, CU engine
1990 RHD 1.9 Auto Sleeper with DF/DG engine

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by itchyfeet »

937carrera wrote: a less aggressive cam will give better low down pulling power and will be an easier drive, more flexible in the gears.

This every time.
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by itchyfeet »

I had an interesting chat with Newman cams today and they are going to cut me a DJ profile on a 3 bolt Aircooled cam, £90+ VAT

They apparently regrind Aircooled 4 rivet cams to DJ profile ( albeit smaller diameter) for a leading parts supplier who charge very much more than that.

It seems I may also be able to source the adapters but that's work I progress.

I never thought I'd ever be so interested in CAMs!

Special thanks to CJH in providing me a scan of his DJ cam also

looking at this you can approximate the inlet duration at 0.05 inch lift ( 1.3mm) as around 228 degrees which is close to the CB 2252's 214 degrees.

This is backed up by his graphs and the figures shown here for 1mm lift duration http://perlindgren.tripod.com/wbx.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Image
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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CJH
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by CJH »

Interesting. If the lobe positions can be matched to an original DJ, and can be reproduced consistently, that would do away with the need for a vernier adapter, and a fixed adapter could be used instead.

I can't help thinking there's a market opportunity here. I wonder what a 4-bolt chilled iron blank would cost to make in small batches. If Newman could copy the DJ profile onto those blanks then end users would just need to swap the ring gear over, without needing an adapter, and the proper 4-bolt-compatible oil pumps could be used. So with a little bit of capital investment we could have quite a saleable product, couldn't we?

Who makes the blanks I wonder.
"I'm a man of means, by no means....King of the Road!"

1983 Viking Xplorer, 2.1DJ

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itchyfeet
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by itchyfeet »

CJH wrote:Interesting. If the lobe positions can be matched to an original DJ, and can be reproduced consistently, that would do away with the need for a vernier adapter, and a fixed adapter could be used instead.
.

Exactly right, it's important to be able to use a standard gear which you can get for 30 quid, then you have a usable DJ cam for about £150 delivered.

CJH wrote: I can't help thinking there's a market opportunity here. I wonder what a 4-bolt chilled iron blank would cost to make in small batches. If Newman could copy the DJ profile onto those blanks then end users would just need to swap the ring gear over, without needing an adapter, and the proper 4-bolt-compatible oil pumps could be used. So with a little bit of capital investment we could have quite a saleable product, couldn't we?

Who makes the blanks I wonder.

Newman may even be able to get hold of type 1 blanks, to be honest I didn't ask.
1988 DG WBX LPG Tin Top
1989 DJ digijet WBX Holdsworth Villa 3 Pop Top
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weimarbus
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Re: WBXmayo

Post by weimarbus »

I'm currently collecting bits for a new buggy engine and having read one of Tencents posts on cams I have opted for the 2280 cam for my new DJ build and will be using standard 1.1 ratio rockers given his views on the 1.25. The buggy only weighs 740 kg and I find that the current DG which has a Scat C25 cam with Type 4 solid lifters could do with more torque low down in the rev range although this may be exaggerated by only having centrifugal advance on the 123 tune distributor (Bosch 009 curve). I hope to have the engine together and running by January and will report back on the performance, although how reliable it will be is another matter. The DG has had around 12,000 miles of abuse with no issues.
1985 hi-top 2.1MV with DG carb and LPG
1955 trials buggy with 1.9 DG high lift cam and twin dell's

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