Synthetic Engine Oil - my experience so far - WBX

[Aidan]

Back in the day (ok it wasn't that long ago) it was simple, Quantum 15W/40 mineral oil and a new oil filter every 6 months or 6k miles max

but since Quantum stopped doing the 15W/40 mineral I have been becoming very unhappy at the available alternatives' performance

175k miles original engine, 2.1 MV in a syncro, power steering, runs lpg 90% of the time

and I was finding heavy carbonsiation of the oil, high oil consumption(well over a litre between changes) and a lot of tappet leak down noise issues, particularly after only a few months, like the oil was shot (which normally you experience at 6 months, slight change in engine note and slight drop in hot oil pressure if you run a gauge - basically the engine tells you to change the oil)

so VW Trade Parts Specialist website has an oil look up table and for a wbx they now recommend the 5w/40 Fully Synthetic PLATINUM oil or the 10W/40 SemiSynthetic Synta


so last oil change I went over to the PLATINUM 5W/40 Fully Synthetic - 'A fully synthetic low ash premium product' approved to VW 505 00 and all the API specs which are correct for the WBX


and I've just changed the oil after the winter and I've put the same stuff in again because I found

little carbonsiation in the oil even at oil change it was still golden as you'd expect running lpg mostly, it's not a diesel ffs
no tappet issues, immediately came up to pressure, and quiet, and even after standing 3 weeks in the depths of winter it would start up and be quiet with a second or two - with the minerals it was taking upto 15 miles to repressurise properly and would leak down in a day or 3
very little oil use between changes, I didn't have to buy any more oil and still had 150ml left from the original 5 litres - works out at roughly 1ml/15 miles consumption, previously it was nearly 5 times that
no oil leaks from seals other than the slight dampness that all 175k wbx have around the base of the breather tower and the disi stem and oil pump cover, these were all present before the change of oil and are no worse, no dripping oil, no dewdrops on the bottom of the engine
I was particularly encouraged that the new oil didn't clean out loads of clag from the engine which I think shows that regular oil changes whether of mineral or other oil types is the single best thing for the internal health of the engine (some report that the first use of fully synthetic cleans out the crap in the engine - so I guess mine didn't have much in it, due to always having had regular services, VW serviced originally, then only a few years with 2 owners before me)

and the cost works out an extra £10 per oil change (buying a single 5 litre) and I will stay with 6 monthly oil changes, and 'invest' the extra cost, others might decide to lengthen the oil change interval - modern vehicles using this oil have longer service intervals - so keeping the costs the same but using a more modern oil

I've also seen other brands with exactly the same spec for half the price of the Quantum Platinum, especially if you buy in 25 litres so it could work out just as cheap with some carefully purchasing

just my humble opinion and experience, I'll let you know if anything changes in the summer heatwave

[steve8090]

We've also trialled the same oil in a 2.1 DJ and a 1.9 DG motor, similar results, no more excessive oil consumption no rattly tappets as you would expect, both have done around 4000 miles so we are very pleased, it means we can go back to a VW oil instead of trying to find someone who can supply a less than adequate mineral oil.

[CovKid]

Struth - VW have refineries now. Cor.

[steve8090]

That's not how its mean't, as a commercial garage we use what is recommended by the OEM, so oil in particular we use at present an oil bought in bulk that complies to VW 505 which in the event of anything happening we have used a compliant oil, TPS are trade suppliers for VW so we abide by their recommendation.
You use whatever oil you want to, but we would be failing if we didn't use a good/correct grade.
And the point here was to highlight that there is an alternative to tracking down a good grade mineral which over the next few years will be disappearing from the shelves.

[CovKid]

You must be taking your morning too seriously Steve. That was Irony.

Aha. Another oil thread. Watch the pages sail by......

[steve8090]

Touche' Brother

[AdrianC]

You use whatever oil you want to, but we would be failing if we didn't use a good/correct grade.

Couldn't agree more. VW designed the engine, their recommendations are the ones to follow - as listed on p72 of http://www.westfaliat3.info/VW_T25_Inst ... iaT3WM.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And the point here was to highlight that there is an alternative to tracking down a good grade mineral which over the next few years will be disappearing from the shelves.

Apart from the expensive "classic oils", good quality mineral's been getting scarcer for quite a few years now - it really is mainly only the bargain-bucket stuff left.

[kevtherev]

I would be interested to know if the issue of ZDDP additive for flat tappets, found in higher concentration in classic mineral oils, has been overcome or just ignored ?
I can understand the rest of this, and that VW recommend this oil, I have always been open to alternatives, but never could get past this additive that no longer exists in modern oils.
My engine has done 55,000 miles (VW replacement engine) and I want it to run for at least a hundred thousand more.
Without ZDDP will my tappet faces degrade faster than with the additive?

Happy to be enlightened

[California Dreamin]

No comment

[faggie]

i have run fully synthetic in all my cars air and watercooled and never had a problem

[AdrianC]

I would be interested to know if the issue of ZDDP additive for flat tappets, found in higher concentration in classic mineral oils, has been overcome or just ignored ?

Is it _ever_ as simple as it first appears?

This...
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/Is-there ... -issue.doc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...raises almost as many questions as it answers, but the basic answer seems to be to avoid cheap rubbish, and that there's no straightforward correlation between shear strength and base stock.

A bit more googling suggests it's only API SM and API SN that start to seriously reduce ZDDP - API SL and earlier are all fairly consistently similar.

[Aidan]

Not ignoring it Kev, the Platinum meets the correct API specs for the WBX as do other brands I've seen and from what I've experienced with mineral oils in the last few years including some premium for old vehicle brands there's probably not much ZDDP or anything else in them these days, reckon they are recycling chip fat (but if it comes from Yorkshire it'll have that tallow in at least ) to make it

[CovKid]

Whether animal, vegetable or mineral, regular oil changes are the most important thing. If you don't change it often enough, it matters not whats in there - Stork, Lurpak, whatever. Everything wears out and metal corrodes. In the general run of things VW flat four engines are only a step up from agricultural engines and don't do the kind of revs of modern engines. Drive smoothly, change the oil regular and use what floats your boat. Don't forget, its not unusual for these engines to go round the clock a few times, even on mineral oil.

Worth keeping an eye on all this though as the car sundries industry steers us towards alternatives and synthetic oils develop yet further.

[California Dreamin]

Steering away from a Vicky Pollard 'Yeah but Not but' response, my only concern remains 'leak down' of worn hydraulic tappet elements. Some will suffer others won't.
Synthetic is superior, of that there is no doubt, putting aside concerns about particular additives that protect flat tappets.
If manufacturers made a fully synthetic 15W40 I'd be on it like a flash as I know in my case going any thinner brings regular tappet bleed down. Like I say, this obviously varies from engine to engine.

Martin

[max and caddy]

I may be wrong but I believe the quantum oil is from millers....