Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Chat about the 25 Years Anniversary meet (May 2010) at Mammut Park Germany here!

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syncroandy
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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by syncroandy »

I'm with Simon on the flat four thing. There's something uniquely iconoclastic about a two-tonne truck powered by a petrol wasserboxer. TBH the pleasure of driving it is worth the fuel cost. The LPG in Europe is a bit cheaper than here which helped a bit, though I failed to record the milages so can't account for that properly.

Having said that I like the TD in my pickup as well, its got its own qualities which suit the vehicle.
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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by syncropaddy »

I find myself agreeing with the WBX sentiments. When I had my DJ I loved to listen to its turbine smooth noise as it revved away and as it was an empty van it was quite nippy as well. Dont miss the 18 mpg I regularly got whilst tearing around the mountains where I lived at the time though!
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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by HarryMann »

My mum and dad are touring Scotland in their T4 Syncro 102 TDi. They got 24 mpg for the towing up to Aberdeenshire, and now 33mpg solo pootling. He has a 100,000 mile fuel consumption record which averages at 27.6mpg. Mind his engine was a £2500 option over the 5 pot petrol (iirc) He has also needed a new turbo at over a grand fitted.

Well, that's a good record of consumption that we should all find useful... the T4 is less draggy (but maybe heavier) than the T3

33 solo pootling... (though a very restricted distance record to get that figure!)

How do they normally drive to get te 27, quite light footed?

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by ..lee.. »

i didn`t get to syncro 25 but i`ve been experimenting as my regular 19mpg is starting to concern me.

last trip to vanwest i managed 26mpg but thats travelling at 55mph and not changing down for the hills.

thought that was a huge improvement from the 19mpg i get travelling at 70mph+ and dropping to 3rd on the hills to keep it at 60mph.

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by jed the spread »

..lee.. wrote:i didn`t get to syncro 25 but i`ve been experimenting as my regular 19mpg is starting to concern me.

last trip to vanwest i managed 26mpg but thats travelling at 55mph and not changing down for the hills.

thought that was a huge improvement from the 19mpg i get travelling at 70mph+ and dropping to 3rd on the hills to keep it at 60mph.

lee.

Thats my driving style :wink:

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by toomanytoys »

HarryMann wrote:
My mum and dad are touring Scotland in their T4 Syncro 102 TDi. They got 24 mpg for the towing up to Aberdeenshire, and now 33mpg solo pootling. He has a 100,000 mile fuel consumption record which averages at 27.6mpg. Mind his engine was a £2500 option over the 5 pot petrol (iirc) He has also needed a new turbo at over a grand fitted.

Well, that's a good record of consumption that we should all find useful... the T4 is less draggy (but maybe heavier) than the T3

33 solo pootling... (though a very restricted distance record to get that figure!)

How do they normally drive to get te 27, quite light footed?


Frell me.. my mate and my brother would be mortified to only get 28..... mate gets 35 local ish and 40-44 on the autoroutes... though it is an 88bhp 2.5 tdi, Bro reckons he gets about the same..

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by HarryMann »

Frell me.. my mate and my brother would be mortified to only get 28..... mate gets 35 local ish and 40-44 on the autoroutes... though it is an 88bhp 2.5 tdi, Bro reckons he gets about the same..

But are those figures from a full, unexpurgated 100,000 mile record like Mr SSS

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by toomanytoys »

Nope, but recored over several tank fulls on a regular basis..

SO they must be wrong then....... :roll: :rofl

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by HarryMann »

Nope, but recored over several tank fulls on a regular basis..

Amazing how consumption varies so much, but maybe on a diesel it doesn't take much wrong or right to change it a lot...

Mine's the carp shape + likely that pump + its not a Tdi + not that high geared (cruise about 3600~3800 rpm). Touched true 80 once on way over, maybe once on way back overtaking (4150 rpm)

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by syncrosimon »

My dad has a little book in his syncro that covers every time he has ever filled up. He phoned me as he had just put £77 in the tank and had achieved 33, which is very high for him and he was very chuffed. He tells me that he never goes above 3000 rpm. He is 79 years old and does not thrash it. The syncro is a 1998 LWB hightop, with a Transcontinental conversion. I did borrow his syncro once and towed my (now nicked) 2000kg caravan, I never got above 20mpg. I had a Range Rover Classic V8 at the time which did 16 mpg towing, and towed the caravan a whole lot better than the asthmatic diesel which felt positively slow. I would rather pay the 4mpg difference any day and tow with a V8.!!

He also has a Seat Arosa 3 cylinder diesel. He has a 45,000 mile average of just over 47 for that. That engine was an expensive option, and my Fox will average 44 mpg with the cheapest 3 cylinder petrol. Diesel takes a long time to pay for it self.

These figures can be validated. His lifetime average is the average of the page averages though which iirc is about 12 tankfulls.
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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by Aidan »

I'd also say my figures are accurate and consistent as I record all my fills, and lpg is always full to full and all the reciepts go through the books and I like to work it out.

I was always told by Gasure I could get 20mpg on lpg but I have never got above 19 with any of my vehicles so equipped 1.9 2wd high top, 2.1 mv high top syncro or 2.1 mv velle/multivan

The 1.9 petrol was the best on petrol at a steady 50 that would do 25/6mpg on a run, the syncros consistently 19-22 max on petrol. The correct speedo drive for the tyre size is important to the accuracy of the odometer as well as the speedo.

I use p per mile as that really shows the difference in the fuel costs, to get the same as an lpg petrol van you need to be returning 35mpg with a diesel and not many of them do that so for me dirty noisy smelly heavy turbo engine that can't keep all it's fluids inside v wbx is a no brainer, sure I'd like the low down torque but in practice the petrols do all the diesels do and sometimes it's better not to try and compete and end up trashing the vehicle, I've never flooded the wbx and done all but one of the river crossings we have done, only that really deep one in the dales did the petrols avoid but mostly because we'd already had multiple rim damage in our convoy and Doug was in the T4; I'd have been very nervous doing it I admit but set up with the strops already fitted at the front and a good line through the river bed I would probably have given it a go.

I note too that the mTDis seem to eat clutches (It doesn't seem to matter if 215mm or 228mm clutch either) when doing slow work, like the trial at Mammut, that's an expense and hassle I wouldn't be wanting to deal with regularly, my last clutch did 60 k miles and the new one went in at xmas and hopefully won't be coming out for another five years.

I am unlikely to do much long distance work abroad, certainly not in the more remote areas so the ubiquitousness of diesel availabilty is not a concern for me and as for range well on full petrol and lpg I can go 550 miles between stops if needs be at an average of 25p per mile

If you want to do Africa/eastern europe/arctic circle I can see that diesel makes sense, and whilst I'd love to do that it's not likely to happen unless I win the lottery in which case fuel costs would not be a major factor, and the expense of the modified gearbox and a new mTDi engine wouldn't be a problem either.

Also for consideration is the emmisions issues, now the german cities are closing out the dirty engines the 2.1MV is much more sought after in Germany as it green badged as standard and can also be upgraded ( a few years ago they were selling MVs as thought of as underpowered now they want them and they are selling the DJ and TD vans), this will come to a major city near you in the not too distant future (Boris can't stop the european parliment for ever) so in the next few years old diesels will be a problem in some parts and the cost of upgrading them to current diesels that pass emissions will not be cheap

Bottom line though is it is cheaper generally to stick with what you've got be it petrol or diesel and only change engine when necessary, I am however grateful to all those who go mTDi or TDi as they are making work for me or the other gearbox rebuilders :ok

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by HarryMann »

His lifetime average is the average of the page averages though which iirc is about 12 tankfulls.

Ah, that will be very close but not = total miles/total fuel

Aidan makes some good points of course...

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by axeman »

Also for consideration is the emmisions issues, now the german cities are closing out the dirty engines the 2.1MV is much more sought after in Germany as it green badged as standard and can also be upgraded ( a few years ago they were selling MVs as thought of as underpowered now they want them and they are selling the DJ and TD vans), this will come to a major city near you in the not too distant future (Boris can't stop the european parliment for ever) so in the next few years old diesels will be a problem in some parts and the cost of upgrading them to current diesels that pass emissions will not be cheap


something like this then :shock:

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by KarlT »

These MPG threads are always interesting. I'm amazed how well my 2.1 DJ did (20.5 mpg......4 up, fully loaded ie bikes, boat, food, etc etc, & towing a loaded 850kg caravan) when compared to the mid-twenty diesels.
Mine is a very well sorted/fresh engine but even still up & down mountains through Norway, where getting out of third was an achievement, I'm well impressed.
I did find though on the flatter runs in Sweden that say I was travelling along at 58/60 mph, I would suddenly think about it & could lift my right-foot maybe 6/7 mm & suffer no loss in speed, on long runs I mostly drive bare/socked foot so maybe that helped. Just remembering to think about it was the issue!
I'm to a Flat-fourer at heart, I just like things that are different, hence why I've got a VW T3 & why I like syncros. I can justify a subaru up-grade though as its staying true to the quirkiness & one day.............. 8)

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Re: Fuel Cost Germany Trip

Post by jed the spread »

Seems everyone is defending and trying to warrant the van they have maybe because how much they have spent on them :lol: Like i said earlier I have both so would like to think i give an unbiased opinion on the one that is top daddy :mrgreen:

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