pushrod seals and lots of smoke

[avant-garde]

Hi again, okay...just got my van back ('81 Aircooled T25) from the garage after having the piston rings 're-roughed' and drove back from Newquay only to discover the following:

1. Idle problems - van cuts out at junctions.
2. pushrods leaking oil onto heat exchangers on both sides.
3. exhaust fumes/smoke coming from previously disconected heat exchangers.

I've had a look on wikki etc and there is some good advice on replacing pushrod seals etc, thing is it's not very detailed as I don't even know where the rocker cover is let alone remove it and remove and replace the push rod seals etc.

My questions are:

1. Can I just remove both heat exchangers and do without them? They are in a pretty rough state - rust etc and ill fitting tubes. The reason why I disconected a section of the rubber tubes that runs to the cab was because the exhaust was coming up into the cab via the vents.
2. With the idle problem can I just add little washers to the accelarator cable to increas the revs?
3. Does anyone have pictures of the process of removing the pushrods as I am better with pictures than words if you know what I mean
4. One more thing that I forgot to mention is that the garage (VW specialists) took the small rubber hose that fits onto the plastic air filter box and replaced it with a longer tube with metal mesh and attached it to the fan housing. Any one know why they might have done this?

I've included some pictures to explain.

Just realised that I can only update 3 pics? The other pictures show that someone has already added wahers to the the accelarator cable and there were some pics of the pushroda etc.

I would appreciate any any advice - but if you could keep it dead simple that would make my day.

Cheers.

[81AirCooled]

The pushrod tube seals are pretty easy even for a complete novice like me, and if you've got the CU engine (2 litre Aircooled) you can do it without removing your engine.

You'll need these parts if you are doing both sides;

2 rocker cover gaskets
8 pushrod tube seals large
8 pushrod tube seals small
Torque wrench

Jack the car up and remove the back wheel. You'll then be able to see the rocker cover easily, about 10-12 inches long and 5-6 inches wide. The cover is held on by a metal bar, use a long screwdriver and push the bar down. Remove the cover. You'll then see this

18092010073.jpg

Remove the rockers but take note how the retaining wire is fitted as this must go back in place exactly as it is.

18092010077.jpg

Take out 1 pushrod and put in a freezer bag or something to keep it clean. With the pushrod out remove the tube it came out of. This might be a bit tough but I was able to do mine by hand, just reach underneath and twist and push. Try not to bend or crush any parts of the tube or you'll need to replace it. Just simply remove the old seals and replace with the new, 1 small, 1 large. Then reinsert the tube, which with new seals is easier said than done. You'll feel some resistance and you'll probably have to use a piece of plastic disc or piping to push is into place. Here you can see mine with the new seal on. I think I might have fudged mine up though as it looks like its pinched a little but it's not leaking.

18092010086.jpg

It's easiest to do one at a time so the pushrods don't get mixed up and make sure they sit properly both in the head and in the rockers when refitting.

I'd also like to know why the garage has moved that hose from the air filter to the fan housing, mine is where it should be but it could do with replacing and if moving it down there is a good thing I might try it.

[avant-garde]

Wow, that's good to see, I like it. Many thanks indeed for the pics.
You make it sound/look easy to do, so I reckon I'm going to give it a go and replace all the seals. I've never used a Torque wrench before - I'm right in saying that it's used to determin how tight you tighten the nuts etc...do you know what the torque for the nuts are? Is it different torque for specific nuts?

So with your picture you show one side with the rocker cover removed - is it exactly the same on the other side - (4 on each side)? And they come out horizontal to the ground.

One more question, if laying underneath am I going to get a face full of oil when I remove the cover?

Once again many thanks.
Kev.

[BOXY]

Hi. Just before you dive in a start replacing the seals. If the garage have re-roughed your piston-rings? then they will have had the heads & barrels off to do the job. If they did this for me and handed back a engine leaking oil out of the push-rods I'd be on the phone complaining to the garage and then probably trading standards.

The pipe that used to connect to your air-box is a crankcase breather. This takes horrible hot oily vapour and should put in back into the air filter reducing emissions / pollution maybe. It looks like they've attached it to the fan housing? Maybe the garage thought it would help by lubricating fan, tinware and anywhere else your cooling air goes?

Can you PM me the name of the garage so I can make sure I avoid them.

[cygnak]

My questions are:

1. Can I just remove both heat exchangers and do without them? They are in a pretty rough state - rust etc and ill fitting tubes. The reason why I disconected a section of the rubber tubes that runs to the cab was because the exhaust was coming up into the cab via the vents.
2. With the idle problem can I just add little washers to the accelarator cable to increas the revs?
3. Does anyone have pictures of the process of removing the pushrods as I am better with pictures than words if you know what I mean
4. One more thing that I forgot to mention is that the garage (VW specialists) took the small rubber hose that fits onto the plastic air filter box and replaced it with a longer tube with metal mesh and attached it to the fan housing. Any one know why they might have done this?

I agree with Boxy, if the garage had done your rings they have had your heads off and should have replaced the push rod seals.
Heat exchangers can be removed and replaced with j-tubes, not got them myself but turbothomas do some nice ones
http://www.turbothomas.com/albums/type-4-j-tubes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Don't like the idea of the breather hose there, it's surely going to send oil around your fan housing and fanbelt, should ideally be into a breather box or air filter.

Good luck

[avant-garde]

Thanks for the good luck. I saw some red grease around the push rods which wasn't there before so I'm thinking that they have done the bare minimum when roughing up the piston rings. I've now made an aluminium tube which I've attached to the exhaust tail pipe that expells the 'horrible hot oily vapour', but after reading all your comments I'm just going to stick it back into the air filter box. Although I did this as soon as I got home from the garage and the vapour then came out the other side of the air filter box.

If I plug up the other intake bit on the other side of the air filter box what's the worse that can happen?
The air filter will get hot and oiled up ...is that a major problem?

I've had a look at the J pipes on the link you mention and there are lots to choose from...can anyone tell me how to choose the right ones please. Yes you've guessed it...I'm a complete novice when it comes to engines etc. (but always willing)

Cheers again for the advice.

Kevin.

[BOXY]

Hi, I think my "hot, oily vapour" description might have given you the wrong idea. Ideally you shouldn't be able to see anything coming out of the crankcase breather. With the engine idling if you pull that pipe off the air-box you can feel "warm" air coming out and eventually detect an oil film on your fingers after a while. If you've got "smoke" coming out of it that's not right. Also I wouldn't expect the crankcase to get pressurized enough to blow through the air-box and out the other side if all was well.

Have you had the engine compression tested? I would have expected the garage to have done this after they'd put the engine back together. What were they trying to cure by re-roughing the rings anyway?

Don't worry about being a novice. There are a lot of people here happy to help.

[silverbullet]

Get on the phone to the garage where you spent your hard earned, explain your concerns and get it straight back there. Don't be fobbed off with "running/bedding in" excuses for all the smoke.
BTW, what is all this "re-roughing" of piston rings exactly? I've built a few engines for customers and never had one back for a fault like this. Do you mean having the bores honed or glaze-busted? If so, new piston rings would be needed as they will have lost their tension and not seal properly anyway.
Get back to the garage for an explanation. If they are indeed VW "specialists" what models do they actually work on everyday? A T3 is along way from a Golf Mk5.

[avant-garde]

Hi again, basically what happend was that on the way back from Dartmoor the engine 'blew' ...in as much as there was loads of blue smoke coming out the exhaust - and I mean loads!! (surprised we didn't get pulled over - it was that bad)

Took the van over to the garage that fitted the new engine and they told me that it was the piston rings.
When I collected the van I asked the main man there (Nigal Allen) what could have caused it as it's basically a new engine ( we got a trip upto Scotland and back to Cornwall with no problems), ...he said that the only thing he could think of would be excessive heat. I asked him about microscopic abrasions in the piston tubes after reading a thread on here and his reply was 'no' the rings just needed to be 'roughed up'. Which he says is what he did.

The guy is a VW specialist and is reccomended throughout Cornwall.

The breather pipe is like a 2nd exhaust pipe - white smoke and you can see it quite clearly.

What I will do later is video it and let you all see it. A picture says a 1000 words.

The only reason why I don't want to make waves with this guy is that the engine is under warranty albeit a verbal warranty by him - which by consumer law is not worth the 'paper' it's written on as I didn't pay for a 'waranty' and I have nothing in writing.

If I'm going to bite the bullet and confront him then I want to be armed with all the facts. Which is where all you nice people come in

I'll upload a link to the video later on this evening.

Thanks again.
Kevin

[silverbullet]

OK, well you do have a contract as you have paid for goods/services and do have bill of sale for said services, yes?
"Fit for use" is the phrase that springs to mind, a rebuild is no good if it only lasts a handful of running hours. Just don't tell me you paid cash...
The idea of "roughing up the rings a bit"... Ugh. Bodgery.
The pic shows a workshop with the usual array of Aircooled machinery so they should know what they're dealing with...
Blue smoke = burning oil, which is what's getting past your piston rings and going down the exhaust.
Don't take any cr4p, don't presume that everyone is cool and "on the scene" 'cos they aint. I should know.

[BOXY]

I've had a look back through some of your other posts to get a feel for what's gone wrong. Originally your engine had low compression and you were looking for a replacement. I guess this got fitted in the early summer? In August this replacement engine died on the way back from Dartmoor. Then you made a trip to Scotland in September. And now the van is back in the garage having the rings re-roughed? Have I got this in the right order?

Some of the questions that spring to mind are:-

What were you billed for when the replacement engine was fitted and what guarantees were given. Did the garage re-con your original engine, or did they fit a completely "new" unit. What is their definition of "re-con"? Did they replace parts to bring the engine back to factory spec or did they just wipe the cobwebs off one they had laying around? Did they give you any running-in instructions when you collected the van with its new engine? Did you run the engine in?

When the van did its impression of a Red Arrow on the way back from Dartmoor did you drive it all the way home, or did you get AA RAC recovery to fetch you? What did the garage do to the engine before you set off for Scotland?

What has the fuel & oil consumption been like with the new engine?

The bottom line is if the garage fitted a "re-conned" engine a few months ago, and you haven't used it outside of normal specifications (rev'd it to +8000rpm, used treacle instead of oil, etc.) then it should be fit for purpose and not dripping oil everywhere and smoking out of the breather.

[avant-garde]

Hi the timeline is as follows:

12th may had the recon engine fitted. Was told to take it easy and to come back after 500 miles to re-adjust the tappets.

Ran the engine in for 500 miles ..took back for tappets to be adjusted. Everything sweet.

Went up to Scotland on the 5th July - no problems as such. Had to top-up the oil pretty much every day on that trip though. Had my first experience of wind ( a light breeze blowing me sidways)

All okay until we went to Dartmoor which was early September. Yes I drove back from Dartmoor with the plumes of smoke.

I put in about £20 of fuel every couple of days...but then again down here in Cornwall everywhere is a journey. My workshop commute is around 30 miles a day.

I've attached the receipts for the recon engine and the latest receipt - which as far as I can see does not even mention piston rings!!!

I would be interested to know what you think. I must say that I'm very impressed with the help from you guys - don't know what I would do without you lot.

[sarran1955]

Hello,

Roughing up piston rings , what they drag them behind the bike sheds, push them about a bit, tear their shirt and make them cry :

Plumes of smoke from a 6 month old engine rebuild does not sound good.

Maybe someone on here can suggest an independant look over things, before you start chasing the warranty.

Any way good luck,

Cordialement,

[BOXY]

Its a bit hard to read all the details but the bill for the engine rebuild looks like they carried out a fair bit of work. It would be good if the garage would talk you through why they changed each part and why they didn't replace others. I am a bit surprised that the parts list doesn't specifically include re-bored or new barrels, & new pistons and rings given the engine's low compression. Unless the "plug problems?" were causing the low compression?

As for this week's invoice I'm not sure why they would be adjusting the tappets now? I thought the whole idea of hydraulic tappets was that they are self adjusting? As you say it doesn't mention piston rings, push-rod seals or anything else you'd associate with removing the barrels to "rough-up" the rings?

If I'd spent the money you have on a "new" engine I'd expect it be running like it had just rolled off the production line for thousands of miles and still going when the van had rusted to dust

Seriously I know a lot of people find it hard to complain but this garage appears to have fallen below the standard you would expect from them. Be polite but forceful and give them the opportunity to put things right. It takes years to build up a good reputation but only days to lose it.

[silverbullet]

Topping up the oil every day after a 500 mile run-in period doesn't sound right unless the bores had glazed and it was blowing it down the exhaust. It does happen, often as a result of not driving an engine hard enough (not thrashing it obviously) but they should have given you running-in instructions really.
I notice that the last thing (afterthought?) on the bill is "pistons and barrels" and combined with the rest of the parts it would add up to a full rebuild. Fitted for £1800, not bad on the face of it.
Funny that the labour comes in at a convenient £995, but that would be nit picking