Syncro Front outer CVJ repair
Front Outer Constant Velocity Joints: Due to their wide angle range and exposed position, these joints and boots are a bit special, being more expensive than all the other CV joints on the Syncro, which are no different then the 2WD CVJ parts (unless it's a Syncro 16, which are larger at the rear (108mm))
Boot kits and suppliers
(14" Syncro)
Outer CVJ Boot Kit: VW Part Nos are 251 498 203 A [Up to Chassis No. 24-K-119 057][Deleted by VW as of March 07]
Outer CVJ Boot Kit: VW Part Nos are 251 498 203 F [From Chassis No. 24-K-119 058]
(16" Syncro with front difflock)
Outer CVJ Boot Kit: VW Part Nos are 251 498 203 B [Up to Chassis No. 24-J-050 666]
Outer CVJ Boot Kit: VW Part Nos are 251 498 203 E [Chassis No. 24-J-050 667 ~ 24-L-007 602] (Options M625/M210 For Driveshaft 251 407 271 L)
Coaster: Good news on CV boot kit availability
Good news on CV boot kits, have replaced mine this weekend and are available from GKN driveline direct or motor factors. GKN are Lobro parent company so parts have Lobro OEM. part no. on them, FRont Outer Boot Kit is Pt. No 23509 and comes complete boot /90gm grease/clips/shaft circlip & nut (as do the VW kits also - Ed.)
GKN have only just released new direct supply catalogue and are at present restocking warehouse at Sutton Coalfield and hopfully will stock cv joints and complete shafts as well, previous distributor for GKN didn't list parts for syncro so they only supplied VW with parts.
Forum discussion on Front Outer CVJs, 'those ring seals' (and different makes)
Jeremy: Hello All,
I've had my Syncro Campervan for just over a year. I think that calls for a celebration! Over this time I've got to know parts of the vehicle I didn't ever expect to know, and this recently includes the Front Outer CV Joints.
I wanted to thank Syncrospares for his help over the phone and offer of second hand parts but I found a new one from http://www.partsinabox.co.uk/ who actually list the VW Syncro for £50 including P&P and VAT.
Fitted and it works a treat, it's never been so quiet. You guys probably know all this already but, just in case you didn't, they are available new. (can't get them from VW - I did ask).
Sonic23: Hi Jeremy,
I've just ordered 2 outers myself from these guys, as I've got this job to do. I was looking at Bentley and see that a ring needs to be pressed onto the ends (Pt No 251 407 328).
I was just wondering if you fitted the rings yourself (did you reuse or buy new?) - or did you take them to someone to get pressed on to the CVJs?
toomanytoys: That's a very good price, what make are they marked with on the unit itself?
Jeremy: Ah! Now two questions I'm not qualified to answer, but I'll give it a go! I'm on good terms with a local garage (that happens when you get a syncro I think) with the deal that if I got the parts they would fit them. So Rich, I have no idea about these rings! I trust it's all there...
toomanytoys, the cv joint I am pretty sure is made by Interparts - their website http://www.interparts.eu.com/
HarryMann: Those ring seals are NLA from VW, but Aidan (Beaker) had the last ones from the OEM and might have a few left (funds eventually go to the Syncronauts, thanks to Aidan) or can supply a slightly different alternative that doesn't require the steel support ring for the seal.
See his photo-article, linked from the Wiki... http://homepage.ntlworld.com/aidan.talbot/V-RingSeals/
These are to prevent water getting behind the bearing during wading. Sometimes they come in the CVJ kit, sometimes not... believe SyncroSam managed to get some when he did his.
Would be a good idea to ask if these did come in the box with the CVJ, and I'd say its a 50/50 chance that they were fitted even if they were in the box... for various reasons. NB. The boots have to be glued onto the CVJ at one end!
toomanytoys: Didn't syncrosam get his from GKN? Maybe they still supply then in there kits..
Would be very good to know if they come in the kits from wherever. I have to get a pair too..
Jeremy: HarryMann, thanks for the advice. I had no idea... If these things aren't fitted a) is it easy to spot, and b) does it really matter?
Syncropaddy: there seems to bo two types for mine. which one do i buy?
HarryMann: The difference is usually the boot kit... early or late I think, for boot kits the split is...
Up to Ch. No 24-K-11905977 use 25149820 A
After Ch. No 24-K-11905978 use 25149820 F
If you mean the Interparts ones, then I haven't the foggiest..
But if you're buying a complete outer CVJ I'd say just get the latest revision part, as long as they are a complete unit. AFAIK it'll fit. We need Beaker and SyncroAndy's help here...
P.S. I thought GKN made them all, the front outer is a critical component, so I hope those Interparts bits are the business. esp. the boots should be tough nylon
sonic23: Only time will tell I guess Clive.... No doubt Jeremy and myself will let everyone know how they perform.
I believe the Interparts boots are Rubber though (I haven't received mine yet - but maybe Jeremy can confirm) , but I am going to fit some CV boot protectors - Futbus is in the process of prototyping some, so watch his space.
BTW - what do you use to bond the end of those cv boots?
Jeremy: The boots were Neoprene, but I'd be interested in those CV joint protectors...
HarryMann: Neoprene or Nylon that'll be it :-) The VW/GKN ones come in black or cream colour, but both same material, very tuf stuf!
There is the glue/sealer that VW offer somewhere in ETKA I think - Arm & Leg job, so I used a good quality RTV sealant from a motor factors (essential to have around).
Andy or Aidan(Beaker) will also know what the physical difference is between the A and the F boot kits - I've forgotten Embarassed But F is the later one of course
Do let us know if those splash seal come with the Interpart CVJ kit.
Also, on one of mine, the steel housing ring for that splash seal was mullered, so if it's been done before, you might have to do a bit of cleaning up and gouging out the rust before the seal itself can be fitted nicely.
Important if you're going wading I'd say, esp. splashy along a beach!
toomanytoys: I got some CV boot protectors in prototype stage as well, based on the OE ones fitted to my doka.. I posted a question a while ago but nobody was interested....
HarryMann: Oh! I think there'll be some interest in them, for those doing long distances on gravel and dry stony roads
toomanytoys: Not just stones, prob more risk from undergrowth/sticks etc.... so if you drive for long distances accross "brush" then they could be usefull....
syncrosam: I got my outer CV from VW. It came with the seal, and the tough boot.
sonic23: The Interparts kit did not come with the sealing ring! So it looks like I'll be contacting Aidan later:
tommanytoys: Is it all marked up as an "interparts" product then? I think the extra seals will be a major issue for anyone wanting to go wading/very dirty conditions..
syncroandy: If Interparts sold that as being equivalent to the VW Syncro part then send it back under Sale of Goods Act, it's not. The GKN part is the one to get, see here:-
BTW, it is the 'early' style, the later 'improved' one has a distinct groove into which the boot locates, to reduce the chance of it popping off under extreme use.
sonic23: Andy - is it really that bad that I have to return them? I thought I was supposed to bond the boot to the CV anyway (like Clive suggested).
Surely then it's simply a matter of adding one of the after market seals that Aidan has? Or is there something mechanically that looks wrong about the componet?
Mind you - if the GKN ones comes with the seals then it might be worth just gettiing them....... Rich
syncroandy: Obviously it's your call. Personally I would just keep thing simple and use the correct item for my late-spec van. Why complicate things unnecassarily ?
Beaker: Are there any numbers on the boot? VW ones have Lobro ID numbers cast in them. It would be interesting to see the casting marks in the bottom of the joint, under the bearings - that would show who made them, they look right enough and they have the seat for the outer seal which is vehicle specific i think.
HarryMann: Thanks for all that, let's conclude with what does and doesn't come with these various CVJ kits then:-
Sonic23: Hi Clive, in answer to clarify.
1) No the interparts do not have the sealing ring.
2) I believe they're designed for the earlier boot from Andy's observations of the pictures.
I'm going to give these a go (with the aftermarket seals from Aidan that replaces the original metal ring and seal) so will let everyone know hiow I get on. It's always good to have viable alternatives....and at the end of the day if it costs £106 all in for, 2 outer CVs and seals, and they perform well, then that can't be bad....
HarryMann: Ta! Good luck with the job.
If you take the whole shaft off, then note that the inner joint's 6 bolts are 2 mm longer (50mm) then the rear CVJ bolts (48mm), to allow for the spacer plates normally fitted at the front inner, according to ETKA.
Any other followups
Syncrodude Is a better way of replacing my Front o/s CV Boot on my Syncro T25 (1986) than to take off the hub?
Is it possible to just take the shaft out of the CV joint ( after releasing the circlip and unbolting the other end from the diff? or am I barking.
garyd
I think that you will find that there is not enough room to withdraw the shaft from the CV joint. The inner joint is quite restricted in where it will go once you remove the bolts ( the subframe etc enclose it.)
I found that by releasing the anti-roll bar and the top hub ball joint, there was just enough space to extract the outer joint from the hub bearings. This was with the hub at full turn (right lock) and the joint at full articulation and coming forwards.
