Club 80-90 Forums

Evening All.

Not sure what section this really sits in, I hope this suits.

Anyway driving home tonight I heard a grinding noise from my o/s/f wheel. Stopped looked underneath, couldn't see anything limped along the road, trying to find somewhere stop off the single track road I was travelling on, about 20mtrs further on the wheel fell off. Managed to re-bolt wheel back on and finish journey about mile.

Now the reason for posting this is that the VAN was MOT'd two weeks ago tomorrow. The wheel that came off was one that the garage had replaced as the tread was too low. So I can only assume that they hadn't tightened the replacement correctly.

I'm not sure if theres any significant damage as it was dark by the time I got the wheel on, it was sitting on the brake disk (sorry I'm sure thats not it) , but I'm absolutely livid with the garage. I wasn't long off an 'A' road, upon which I had been travelling at speed (well T25 speed), I dread to think what would of happened if it had come off on there!! or if it had come off whilst checking underneath!

Anyway, I'm not sure what the best course of action should be - was thinking that I would get another garage to check for damage, and then recharge any works back to the original one. Or potentially formalise a compliant. The garage doesnt seem to be registered, but it does do in house MOT's.

Any advice before I start writing calling would be appreciated.

hammer them. I'd go so far as to speak to the police transport division. You could have died. Same goes for anyone in the van with you at the time. I'd be furiously violent with the knob who's to blame. Simple job and they can't even do that. Bloood boils

Your reply really puts it into context!!

Am I right in thinking that as I drove back (after refitting) with no real issues, that the cause could only be under tightened wheel nuts? I guess even if anything else the fact it past its MOT puts the fault with them?

Thanks

How many miles did you cover after they fitted the wheel? You need to check the tightness of the wheel nuts after a certain mileage. also after two weeks I reckon you've no chance of getting the garage to be held liable. Who knows, some scroat may have tried to nick your wheel(s) one night. Have you checked all the other wheel nuts? No, I reckon you've little chance of a claim against them. Be thankful that you didn't have a serious accident. Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. Just my opinion.

I agree with Keith I'm afraid. The garage did their job, it's up to you as driver to make sure the wheels are tightened up after a week or so; certainly a couple of weeks. Should be standard practice to check & retorque after removal. Be glad nobody was hurt and remember to do all of your regular maintenance checks.

meggles wrote:How many miles did you cover after they fitted the wheel? You need to check the tightness of the wheel nuts after a certain mileage. also after two weeks I reckon you've no chance of getting the garage to be held liable. Who knows, some scroat may have tried to nick your wheel(s) one night. Have you checked all the other wheel nuts? No, I reckon you've little chance of a claim against them. Be thankful that you didn't have a serious accident. Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. Just my opinion.

Sorry but i agrea with meggles

Each time i have had work done on my van ie wheels off,its on my receipt to retighten after 50 miles or the next day or so.
I also drive wagons for a living and when we have a wheel changed you must retorq after 50 kilometers or30 minutes standing.
good that no one was hert.

John

There was nothing on the receipt about re tightening, i've also done less than 150miles in under two weeks, Im also sure that nobody tried to nick them. However I hear what your saying though, the garage have many reasons to excuse themselves.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Even if it is your responsibilty to check the tightness of the bolts a week or two after, this does not excuse what they appear to have done. If they try to tell you it's your responsibility to check the tightness etc, I would point out to them that "two wrongs don't make a right" and I would ask them for the name and address of the government department that you should complain to about the incident.

The reason I think it's important to complain is to make sure they clean up their act rather than to gain something personally. If they are not held to account for it, they could do it again and the outcome could be far more serious.

Can't say about this particular garage but to save any "Wheel Falling Off" issues- garages fit the wheel nuts with a Torque wrench nowadays. They still advise checking after "X" miles but I have never known a problem with a wheel that has been Torque'd. However- Before a wheel does come off- you feel it and hear it. That is the time to stop --before it falls off.

And the only time I forgot to tighten the wheel nuts on my car- I felt something was wrong before 1/4 mile had been done.

Another thing that could happen is that the threads of a Wheel nut or Stud could strip and this would put strain on the other studs/nuts. But the torque wrench should have found this as it would never Get to right torque.

VolKS wrote:Can't say about this particular garage but to save any "Wheel Falling Off" issues- garages fit the wheel nuts with a Torque wrench nowadays. *SNIP*

Not true of all garages. I recently had some welding done which required them to remove a wheel. When I got home, I wanted to remove to wheel to complete the job (seam sealant and underseal). I had to use a long bar and literally bounce up and down on the bar to loosen the wheel nuts. Each of them 'cracked' as they came loose. They were most certainly not torqued to the required amount amount (123Lbs - 170nm).

Sometimes jobs like putting a wheel back on is sometimes given to the plebs, and if they haven't been instructed correctly, they will tighten them until they think they are tight enough.

The rule of thumb is therefore; Always check the torque on your wheels nuts/bolts yourself if any garage (or tyre centre) has removed the wheel/s.

Drivers responsibility for vehicle, even if garage may have been negligent. I'd still raise it with them though. If they used an air tool, perhaps the compressor wasn't up to pressure or whoever used it previously had reduced the pressure for a different job. The same applies to pumping your tyres up - its up to you to test them with an accurate gauge.

Firstly....if you want any kind of redress from the garage you need to give them 'the right of reply' or in this case ' the chance to put things right'.
If you take the van to a 2nd garage the first will just say that you didn't give them the chance to examine the vehicle and check it over for themselves.
Unfortunatey the T25's large bolt/nut thread size (compared to most vehicles) and the way the fasteners centralise the wheel to the hub (again slightly different to most) means that they are prone to the wheels coming loose IF they are not tightened correctly.

It is particularly important to tighten these is the correct sequence AND to the correct tightness...which incidently is not 170NM ^^^^ BUT 180NM !

There are far too many reports of T25 wheels coming off or loose and ALL could have been avoided by following correct tightening proceedure and YES! rechecking after the first journey.
180NM



AND
If we are being completely honest with ourselves...There is usually a fair bit of warning before a wheel comes off, lots of clunking and knocking for several minutes before it parts company. So although it certainly wasn't your fault you have to take some responsibility for 'driving on' after you first heard the noise. I know we all do it...it's dark, wet, I'm only 3 miles from home etc etc.

Martin

it was sitting on the brake disk (sorry I'm sure thats not it)

Maybe best to come along to a meet, not everyone knows their way round a Bus, but they'll be plenty of folk to point at rusty bits and scratch chins

you really need rto have a bit of general knowledge with any older van/car /lawnmower//beard trimmer, even if its just to stop you being caught out

Attending meets is a great idea, I have been a bit rubbish at this. I do have to say however that after knowing nothing when I first bought the van 3yrs ago, I have found my way round. I've removed wheels and replaced using the correct sequence, which incidentally haven't fallen off. Generally serviced and replaced many parts, learnt to weld and replaced roof - although a novice not a complete novice. It didn't give a lot of notice, as soon as it started knocking I stopped checked all, failing to suspect the obvious in hindsight, tried to move to a suitable spot to stop blocking traffic on a single track road, when it fell off.

I accept that I should of checked the bolts. The thing that really concerns is how much notice I would of got travelling at 60 on a very busy A road, which I had just turned off. I've reported the garage although realising its partly my issue, I still feel its negligent on their behalf. If they have to up their performance after, then thats resolve.

I appreciate all the useful comments and replies as always.

California Dreamin wrote:...which incidently is not 170NM ^^^^ BUT 180NM !

I stand corrected. It is indeed 180Nm (133Lbs) if you are using standard VW wheels and nuts.





(modified to include the 'standard VW' statement)