Club 80-90 Forums

It looks like the passenger side (LHD van) rear CV joint (outer?) is the cause of a rattle when turning right. All the CV joint bolts that I can gain access to are very very tight indeed and I am worried about rounding the allen key holes. The outer joint bolts are not the easiest to get to, and when the rear wheel is jacked up it won't turn.

Do you have to jack up both rear wheels to be able to turn one wheel and hence get to all the CV joint bolts?

If I round the allen key holes on the outer CV joint bolts is it a case of dismantling the rear hub/trailing arm to get the bolts off?

Thanks in advance.

syklist wrote:It looks like the passenger side (LHD van) rear CV joint (outer?) is the cause of a rattle when turning right. All the CV joint bolts that I can gain access to are very very tight indeed and I am worried about rounding the allen key holes. The outer joint bolts are not the easiest to get to, and when the rear wheel is jacked up it won't turn.

Do you have to jack up both rear wheels to be able to turn one wheel and hence get to all the CV joint bolts?

If I round the allen key holes on the outer CV joint bolts is it a case of dismantling the rear hub/trailing arm to get the bolts off?

Thanks in advance.

If (or when) you round the hex bolts off there is a great tip on removing them on this video we made on changing a VC,

http://campervanculture.com/2011/01/how ... -yourself/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have seen some really unusual and some what unnecessary extreme ways people have taken them out but it doesn't have to be a hard job to do, in fact its relatively easy to do. If I was in your position when all the Hex bolts are out replace them with the spline bolts from Brickwerks as I have never known of one rounding off before. When I do the outer's I usually undo the ones under the drive shaft, then undo the inner ones to drop the drive shaft own then undo the top ones and then the drive shaft just comes out.

Its just the way I do it and am no expert and only a keen amateur but it works for me and as long as you have the spline tool to hammer in the stuck hex bolts (its the same size as the spline bolts anyway) their is no reason why it shouldn't be an easy job.

jed

jed the spread wrote:
If (or when) you round the hex bolts off there is a great tip on removing them on this video we made on changing a VC,

http://campervanculture.com/2011/01/how ... -yourself/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(snip)

Thanks for the tip, I was just at Biltema to get some axle stands, I could have picked up some torx keys That'll teach me to go parts shopping before checking the forum and genuflecting twice

It is now -5'c outside, the roads and ground as slippery as a teflon coated slippery thing covered in olive oil. Although with 4kW of heat warming up the garage tent it should be tolerable. I'll get the back of the Syncro jacked up and the wheel off tonight.

Don't buy torx bits for this job!
You need 12 point or spline bits.
Torx only have six points.

Titus A Duxass wrote:Don't buy torx bits for this job!
You need 12 point or spline bits.
Torx only have six points.

Thanks for pointing that out.

As everyone above ^^^^^ says plus:

If it is making that much noise you should be able to feel play in the joint even when its on the ground. Then you will make sure that you change the right joint!

It helps to clean out each of the heads with a small old screwdriver first which will allow you to get the best purchase - but I think thats on Jed's video.

If your diff isn't locked you only need to jack up one side to turn the wheel and get at the bolts. You will probably only be able to reach two at a time and therefore need to get out from under, take the handbrake off, turn the wheel by one third, put the handbrake back on then crawl back underneath - unless of course you have an assistant! At my age this is the worst bit of changing a CV.

If you have engine protection this will probably need removing to get the axle off (it certainly does on a petrol Syncro). You really need to undo both CV's so you can get the axle to a vice to do the job properly.

Make sure you keep everything very, very clean. Just a little crud will soon devour your expensive new CV. While you're at it you may as well change the boot for ultimate peace of mind. Also be careful where you get your replacement CVs from. There appear to be some naff chinese CVs out there. Personally I would always go to BWs.

Take your time and do things in a logical order - its far from the worst job on a Syncro.

PetenAli wrote:As everyone above ^^^^^ says plus:

If it is making that much noise you should be able to feel play in the joint even when its on the ground. Then you will make sure that you change the right joint!
(snip)

Take your time and do things in a logical order - its far from the worst job on a Syncro.

I ran it up and down the drive to check. The noise is definitely from the rear right side. It is now clacking at low speeds. Rather confusingly, there is no vertical play at either end which is why I tested it again today. Although in contrast to the other rear driveshaft the noisy one moves further outwards and hits metal at the end of its travel. Rocking the wheel back and forth whilst holding the driveshaft produces a feel like there is gravel in the outer CV joint. It is quite obvious. There was no clip holding the outer CV boot to the driveshaft so the outer CV joint could just have run dry. The noise started after driving around on rutted/washboard ice covered roads.

I did the front right inner CV joint and replaced the clutch master cylinder earlier this year which made me realise that a T3 Syncro is more frustrating to work on than a Mk 3 Mini with front drum brakes.

Rather confusingly, there is no vertical play at either end which is why I tested it again today.

What about rotational play?

Although in contrast to the other rear driveshaft the noisy one moves further outwards and hits metal at the end of its travel.

Might that just be to do with the angles of the joints - e.g. if you have one side jacked up and the other n the ground?

I also meant to say - much respect for doing this outdoors in sub zero temps! Getting too old for that sort of thing myself!

PetenAli wrote:

Rather confusingly, there is no vertical play at either end which is why I tested it again today.

What about rotational play?

Although in contrast to the other rear driveshaft the noisy one moves further outwards and hits metal at the end of its travel.

Might that just be to do with the angles of the joints - e.g. if you have one side jacked up and the other n the ground?

I also meant to say - much respect for doing this outdoors in sub zero temps! Getting too old for that sort of thing myself!

E D I T: there is no rotational play.

OK you made me think again. I just jacked it up the wheel in question again and tested to see if there is wheel bearing play. I put my hands at the 12-6 position on the wheel and it moves rattling slightly as I rock it. In the 9-3 position there is no play. I am beginning to suspect the wheel bearing, but why is there play in one plane but not the other?

That is normal play for these old beasts.

Titus A Duxass wrote:That is normal play for these old beasts.

OK thanks.

Possibly the thing to do is going to be to pull the CV off, strip it and see if there are any signs of wear e.g. pitting, blueing or even in worst case, big gouges out of the cage or ball hub or outer bit. You are going to have to take it off to replace the knackered boot anyway. If you don't replace the boot the CV soon will be knackered. If it is OK then replace the boot, repack with new grease and go on your way for several tens of thousands of miles (or kilometers).

While its off you can then double check the wheel bearings without any chance of mixing the two up.

OK folks, take a look at this video of the play in the rear wheel bearing and let me know what you think.
http://mistymornings.net/videos/PC292630.mpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

syklist wrote:OK folks, take a look at this video of the play in the rear wheel bearing and let me know what you think.
http://mistymornings.net/videos/PC292630.mpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That seems like quite a bit of play and noise to me. I don't think it would get through an MOT.

I should say syklist that I am also just an enthusiastic amateur who has been playing with VW's for many years - there are lots of highly skilled and experienced engineers on here so it is best to get their views - thats what I do!!

there is always a little play in the rear wheel bearings, but it looks and sounds like you have too much (for my liking). and i agree with pete, i would fail the mot with that amount of play. time to change the wheel bearing i am afraid.

neil