Club 80-90 Forums

Hi there, I'm after some advice again after our first holiday in Kippin, our T25, ended on the back of an AA truck!! sorry if it's a bit long winded but i thought i'd try to include anything that's relevant.

He's a 1984 Autohomes Kamper which was originally fitted with a 1.9 water cooled petrol engine. He was later fitted with a 1.6 turbo diesel engine which i'm told was from a 1988 Passat.

The engine was a good runner but leaked a bit of oil on longer journeys, i assume this may be from the crankshaft oil seal as on long journeys i've found the clutch slips very occasionally in top gear on long inclines. As the engine is mounted at an angle i have found topping up a bit hit and miss as the level was high on the dipstick when i got him but was assured by the owner that this was where the level should be, and this is where i've tried to maintain it. The engine was always smoky on startup, a mixture of blue and black smoke which soon cleared. Other than that it would chuck out loads of black smoke if you put your foot down. The engine was otherwise smooth, sounded good and cruised lovely.

Anyway, we took Kippin on his first holiday last week from Suffolk to Cornwall via Kent and the New Forest. Other than a little clutch slip on longer stints when hot he drove lovely. Pulling up really steep first and second gear hills in Cornwall presented no problems.I did find that he lost loads of speed on the long motorway hills in Devon and Cornwall, sometimes I had to drop him into 3rd and occasionally second to crawl to the top. I topped up the oil as needed along the way.

On the way home I had some smoke in the rear. I stopped and found that the oil breather had blown off slightly making a mess in the engine bay. . I put the breather back on, tightened the jubilee clip and finished the next 150 mile stint with no problems.

After an overnight stop at Stonehenge I again topped up the oil with about 3/4 of a pint. I was bearing in mind what I had lost when the breather came off and what would have leaked over the last 150 miles. The level on the dipstick then seemed to be in the usual place. We set off for Salisbury on the way home.

After about 15 miles whilst cruising at about 50mph in top gear things went badly wrong. I suddenly saw a MASSIVE amount of smoke in my mirror which was coming out of the exhaust, mostly white but i'm sure there was black as well. In a panic i depressed the clutch only to find the engine then revved flat out!!! I switched off the ignition whilst still moving and it still kept going.......... In retrospect I know I should have stalled the engine but I think I was in shock and it ran flat out for about 15 seconds until it stopped. I coasted to a halt. Stupidly i then started her again and the same thing happened - flat out and huge plumes of smoke. And again I didn't stall it and left it to run for about another 10 seconds until it died.

On inspection there was oil on the ground which had been thrown out of the exhaust. It doesn't seen to have dropped it from anywhere else. I now know that the engine was running on it's own oil hence the loss of control and massive smoke.

I got Kippin recovered by the AA yesterday (that's another whole story) and he now sits on my drive. I'm currently recharging his battery as i'd left the hazzard lights on, but as yet haven't done anything else as I just want to gather my thoughts and not cause any further damage.

So...... I have a few questions for you all...:

What happened? - Did I overfill the oil and cause this mess or could it just be that the turbo has gone?

What should I do next? - I'm tempted to drain a pint off and turn the key to see what the engine sounds like.

Have I likely knackered my engine? - ..... i think so........

Am I an idiot - Yes.

Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated. As it goes we had an amazing first holiday and whatever happens we'll make sure that we'll have many more happy holidays in him.

Many thanks,

Mark.

The likely cause is Kippin built up excessive crank case pressure due to being over full of engine oil. This resulted in him? being sick and boffing a load of oil up the breather and into the inlet side of the engine. Kippin's engine was then running on lube and not diesel hence the unresponsive throttle. If you are lucky and the engine hasn't hydraulic't or over reved then it's just a case of cleaning out the excess oil in the air box/inlet manifold area, run the engine again to burn off the remaining oil.
Note* check the oil level on the flat is between the marks.
Infact, you may need to check the 'calibration' of the dipstick by draining the oil off completely, then refill with new filter exactly 4.5 litres of new Diesel specific oil (10W/40 or 15W40). Then run engine for one minute, stop one minute and dip the oil. Mark the high point as the 'upper level' on the dipstick mark 10-15mm below that for the minimum level.

Martin

Hello,

what you just experienced was "run away" - which can be quite scary.

I completely agree with Martin that you should drain the oil and filter and start again and mark it up as he says, and always then read it when the van is level - also do it when warm and given 10-15 minutes to drain to the sump.

Excessive oil causes excessive oil pressure - there is always some crankcase pressure which is regulated by the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) Valve - crankcase pressure gets much higher with worn piston rings, and can happen with vacuum leaks in the braking system because of the vaccum pump itself discharging more into the crankcase. If you overfill with oil, you will increase the oiliness of the vented crankcase gasses, and also put more strain on the turbo seals. It is possible, if you are worried, to install a "catch-can" which catches the vented crankcase gasses in a can, which will stop the oil from being recirculated.

I would definitely check the operation of your PCV as well, as if it is stuck open and the regulator spring is broken then this would contribute.

I have an oil pressure and temperature gauge and auxiliary oil cooler, and the gauges generally tell me the health of the oil supply - I rarely read full on my dipstick and if I do it settles down somewhere in the middle.

Hope your engine isn't damaged and you manage to recover it!

Ewen

Thanks so much chaps, that's given me a bit of hope!! Will drain and refill the oil tomorrow and let you know how i get on........

Cheers!, Mark

Well I had to move Kippin off the drive first thing this morning so thought i'd give him a go....and he started!! Sounds just the same, only moved him about 200 yards but at least it doesn't sound like the engine destroyed itself. Now onto the oil change and see what happens.

Good news

Pleased for ya, such a worry, then a relief

I am the first to admit that I am not a Diesel expert, but if this was mine I would at least temporarily fit a catch tank to the breather instead of feeding it into the inlet manifold, just to make sure the scary (& dangerous !) "run-away" does not re-occur. Once you are happy that the oil level is correct and there are not excessive amounts of oil in the catch tank (caused by crankcase pressure = usually worn rings), then perhaps re-fit the standard breather. (or just leave the catch tank in place )

And as Ewen says, check the crankcase ventilation valve is not stuck or broken.

As an exercise....the breather pipe needs to route well above the cam box and then come down into the 'catch tank' I've also seen where people have used some sort of restrictor (you know those descaling pads that you put in a kettle to stop limescale) totally porous so the crankcase gasses can pass through it without dificulty but at the same time any oil residue gets caught and returns back down the pipe into the sump (needs positioning on the upside of the breather)

Let us know where the 4.5litre 'setting' mark comes in relation to the dipsticks 'ORIGINAL' level markings. I hope the 'new' full mark is several centimeters lower than the original and we will be on to a winner.


Martin

Hi,

I'm not sure how much oil I draned out but I can tell you it was a hell of a lot more than 4.5 litres!!! Once I fitted the new filter and refilled with 4.5lt the level exactly on the full mark on the dipstick!! Previously it was way above that which made sense at the time taking into account the angle it's mounted out but obviously this wasn't right. So it was overfull when i got him and i'd maintained this and probably gone even higher, hence my problems. The engine now runs beautifully and the turbo seems fine so that's a real relief.......
,.......well almost. The clutch is now slipping in 3rd and 4th at anything but really low revs and i'm sure it's going to have to be replaced despite the previous owner having just fitted a new one (well that's what he told me.) I guess the plates are just soaked in oil and doesn't seem to be improving with use, in fact getting worse. Does anyone know if clutch replacement is an engine out job or just a gearbox off? I think a new main bearing oil seal would be in order at the same time.

Cheers, Mark

deffo gearbox out.

Yup, gearbox out but I'm confused about the clutch, this fault shouldn't have caused any oil getting into the bell housing...strange.
Anyway, it looks like the box needs to come out but before you do that wouldn't be worth talking to the previous owner to see if there is warranty on this repair? as in...did he have the clutch professionally replaced so is the work still gauranteed?
Yes perhaps the rear main oil seal is leaking but then it could just as easily be the g/box input shaft seal...this needs properly investigating.

Martin