Club 80-90 Forums

Hi Guys, I'm ever indebted to all those who patiently reply to my posts! So thanks in advance.

I took my girl out for a bit of a run today. All was going very very well to the point that when I was actually thinking she was going very very well she decided to cut out as I approached a set of red traffic lights. I got her going again and every time I took my foot off the accelerator to slow or stop the engine would just cut out. Tick over sounded fine.

I've had a bit of a poke around and vacuum hoses, fuel lines etc all seem in tact and where they should be.

I did (well my dad did) notice that there seems to be very little fuel in the fuel filters.

Now my main question is - should a 1.9 DG have 2 fuel filters? There's one near the fuel tank but there's another in the engine bay near the carb (pierburg). I've a feeling the one in the engine bay shouldn't be there but am seeking confirmation. Theory being that once the engine is warm, the fuel pump doesn't have enough pull to get the fuel through 2 fuel filters to get enough fuel through to the carb.

Cheers

Sarah

Just one filter is required, by the tank.

So the tickover is fine when the engine restarts?

Thanks Kev

Yeah restart and move all is good. No idling though whilst still warm. Had to leave her cool for a bit to have that luxury! But what I meant by tick over sounding fine was more that even with foot off the accelearator there was no audible slow down in the revs or other change in the sound of the engine. Cut out is just out of the blue. Assuming that this is because once it's warm and auto choke has switched off, the fuel pump is struggling to pull enough fuel through to keep running when I'm not accelerating? If this is the case is it just going to require removal of the extra filter and replacement of fuel line to sort the problem?

As an aside sorry if I sound dumb - still trying to get my head around what's what, how it works and where it is. I'm starting to grasp some things but I don't find the Haynes particularly helpful - I struggle to relate their diagrams to what's in my engine bay and beyond. I have googled this already with no joy but would really like to see basically a photo of a DG engine and all the bits that run beneath to the radiator, fuel tank, brakes etc with all the components labelled. Does anyone know if such a thing exists?

So the engine will not idle when warm and only idles when cold.
did this suddenly happen?

the auto choke does not "switch off" it gradually opens the choke flap as the engine warms up , this takes about 5 -10 mins. to open fully depending on the ambient temp

I would be checking two things
the idle speed cut off valve (haynes) and any air leaks on the induction side

kevtherev wrote:So the engine will not idle when warm and only idles when cold.
did this suddenly happen?

Yeah - fine until the engine has warmed up. Yeah suddenly happened. I'm guessing time between starting and first cut out would have been about 15 minutes, driving without coming to any stops with a maximum speed of 40mph. Has done this before - just after her last visit to the garage where she'd had a lot of work done including a carb clean, filters replaced, distributor replaced among lots else. When I took a look then I found that the vacuum hoses between the manifold and the carb and the ? and the carb had become disconnected and weren't fitting well. Thickened up the nipples these go into with some insulating tape and hoses now fit snuggly. This was a couple of months ago and had no problems with cut outs until today. These hoses coming loose again was the first thing I looked for as I'd been through a pot holey carpark and thought they'd possibly popped out - they hadn't.

kevtherev wrote: the auto choke does not "switch off" it gradually opens the choke flap as the engine warms up , this takes about 5 -10 mins. to open fully depending on the ambient temp

Dumb question 3 - if there is a problem with the choke which is preventing it to open fully, could the resulting rich mix be causing this cut out or would I be having problems restarting?

kevtherev wrote:I would be checking two things
the idle speed cut off valve (haynes) and any air leaks on the induction side

I will take another look at the Haynes and will delve further into the wiki with those search terms.

Thank you very much Kev x

SarahD wrote: Dumb question 3 - if there is a problem with the choke which is preventing it to open fully, could the resulting rich mix be causing this cut out or would I be having problems restarting?

both.

Thickened up the nipples these go into with some insulating tape and hoses now fit snuggly. This was a couple of months ago and had no problems with cut outs until today.

you can buy some nice new hose at halfords... do your self a favour and eliminate the possibility. Are you sure they are on correctly?
from the back of the carb one should go to the distributor, and one should go to the airbox

there are other pipes that can leak.
the brake servo hose (braided types look ok but under the braid the rubber perishes
the choke pull down unit (haynes)

I would say you have a fuel issue so eliminate eliminate eliminate

It might be a very simple problem. There is a short earthing cable connected from the carburettor to the engine body. If this comes disconnected it will also cause the problem that you describe. It happened to me. I connected it up again and problem solved. I hope that the problem is as simple and cost free as that. Good luck.

Patrick

Hi
Sarah

Looks like I have just suffered the same symptoms as you. For no apparent reason the engine stalls when my foot is taken off the accelerator when warmed up, engine shakes when ticking over after cold start and sounds like it is missfiring. Also smell as though it is running to rich. Going to have a tinker when I can and will let you know how I get on. MIght not be until next week though as very busy at mo.

Cheers
Nic

I know I said I was to busy but its stopped raining and the carpet can wait to be layed, turned out to be a sticky choke flap. (cheers for the hint Kev) I was planning on replacing all filters etc etc but ended up just removing the carb cover turning on the engine and played with the flap . Managed to control the running of the engine by moving the flap around manually. Turned off engine sprayed cleaner down the choke, lubricated moving parts outside carb (not the bi metal coil inside housing) and he runs as good as before, took for a quick spin to working temp and no probs so far. Hope yours is as simple as this.
Now for that carpet

Nick

Thank you very much Nick, will check that too.

Just got back from attempting to have a look at mine. A friend at work had suggested I also perform a check to see if the breather hose is blocked - said to run it til it stalls then take the petrol cap off. If I hear a hissing noise it means the hose is blocked. Again should be fairly straight forward to sort.

Anyway, lack of rain and have some time so went down to do just that. Can't start her at all now! Completely dead. Assuming it's just a flat battery though was sure I'd switched everything off after I parked her up the other day. Just waiting for my power pack to recharge fully (although in the green didn't seem to quite have enough omph to start her) then will try again later in the week.

The joys of T25 ownership!!!

Right just back from starting her with the help of a power pack!

Had her running for a good 30 odd minutes. Revved her up from time to time, took her for a little drive around the block - didn't want to go too far in case she conked again. Apart from being a bit stuttery when cold, tick over to my novice ear was fine all the way through. No matter what i did with the throttle, this time she just didn't want to cut out. I'm puzzled. But other than that sounds and smells like you describe in your post Nick. Will have a look at the choke flap tomorrow when I can get some supervision from someone who knows more than me! (Not difficult )

Had a good look in the engine bay and all wires etc seem to be attached to things (nothing unconnected). The only thing I did notice was that the coolant header (the one in the engine bay as opposed to the rear flap expansion tank) had some air in it - should it be full full? Fluid level was below the bottom of the cap and not sure if this is normal. If it's not could this cause the engine to cut out when warm/any other issues which might arise from this? There was also fluid in the expansion tank and I noticed the level rise as the engine warmed as I understand should happen. Kept an eye on the temp gauge whilst driving the other day and again today and it only goes just over the half way point. Noticed today the fan kicking in - I don't normally notice from the drivers seat anyway. Fan operated intermittently which I expect is normal if it's trying to maintain the temperature within a range.

Fuel filters - fuel level in both filters is less than half - today and the day she was cutting out. Intend on getting the "extra" removed but have zero confidence to do this myself due to the likelihood I'll end up spilling fuel everywhere so will pay the garage. Would like to eliminate anything else that I can myself (with help) first though.

Thanks for your help guys it's very much appreciated!

Just a mini update. Yesterday, having spent a lot of time puzzling over the Haynes and trying to relate the diagrams to what I'm actually seeing in my vehicle (and failing!) I took the plunge and had a blind fiddle with the carb and choke guided loosely by a colleague who has also previously owned a T25 a long time ago. I took the air filter up to access the carb and flaps - cleared the primary jet and wd40'd the lever which seems to operate the flap as it was rusted and a little stuck. Good bit of rubbish in the jet considering the carb was cleaned in the garage only a couple of months ago.

Took the van for a good run today and basically tried to emulate the run from last week where she kept cutting out. No problems this time whatsoever! Not gonna be lulled into a false sense of security though - colder day today and less traffic on the roads than last week meant the engine didn't get as warm as it had done.

Kev - I will still have the extra filter removed by a professional. Just want to see for now whether what I have done is a success in the naive hope that this is a job which can wait until the next service or another big problem arises. It might be that the jets in the carb keep gunking up and that regular cleaning is what is required.

Thanks Kev, Nick and Patrick for your advice. I'll keep updating this thread on my progress in the hope that it might help others.

Those were air jets if it was at the top of the carb.
it's what's in the float bowl is what matters.

I think your problem is solved and a periodic spray of light oil on the lever and shaft will keep the flap free.

Pleased youve got it sorted lets hope its ok now

Nick