Club 80-90 Forums

Ive recently brought a Holdsworth Villa 3 camper from a dealer, It was sold to me described as a 2.1 injection with 112 bhp..After looking around in magazines etc it seems that there are several versions of the 2.1 engine dependant on the engine number, and i believe these are;
Code SR = 2100cc 87bhp
Code SS = 2100cc 92bhp
Code MV= 2100cc 95bhp
Code DJ= 2100cc 112bhp
since looking through the paperwork with my Camper it seems mine (according to the V5) has the engine code 'SS' meaning '92bhp low compression'. (and not the 112bhp that was advertised)
According to the 'VW Heritage T25 catalogue' ALL the 2.1ltr engines except the code 'DJ' are 'Low Compression' But are they ALL fuel Injected ?????
Also mine is a 5 speed model, so I ignorantly thought it would automatically be the high powered 112bhp unit to go with it..

Also it seems that most people that sell these 2.1ltr model automatically assume that it has 112bhp. I dont recall any advertised whilst i was looking stating 2.1 ltr 87 bhp...

Bit miffed now, what to do

Get them to refund you £100 for every BHP missing.

If your not happy with the 92BHP to the point you do not want the van and the advert stated in writing that it was 112bhp (when new) and its actually the 92BHP model then technically they are in breach of the trade description act of 1968 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/29 and you are entitled to a refund.

If it states on the V5 that it is 92BHP then it may be difficult as it could be argued that this should have been checked at the time of purchase.

However as per your post the V5 states engine code SS, then this is not immediately obvious and I think you have a good case for a refund. If they know their legal rights too however you could end up going to small claims court, so you may have to go down the good will gesture route (£100 per BHP mis -advertised).

I reference chapter 29, section 3;

(1)A false trade description is a trade description which is false to a material degree.(2)A trade description which, though not false, is misleading, that is to say, likely to be taken for such an indication of any of the matters specified in section 2 of this Act as would be false to a material degree, shall be deemed to be a false trade description.(3)Anything which, though not a trade description, is likely to be taken for an indication of any of those matters and, as such an indication, would be false to a material degree, shall be deemed to be a false trade description.

In their defence (section 24), if they have relied on another source of information and they can prove it then then they will get of scot free, but im sure if they are a dealer then they would have this sort of information to hand on the computer so it would be lack of diligence.

Before you believe the v5 check the m code sticker, it's a little White stick on label. On mine it's below the dash by the steering column. It will give you engine size and engine code as well as all the other options fitted at the factory. There is probably a way to tell by looking at the engine, but someone else will tell you that. By far the majority of vans are either mv or dj.

Just checked, ss engine code only available from '89 onwards

Hi thanks for that.
It doesnt state the power output of the engine on the V5. the only reference to the engine is 2109cc which I did check when I viewed it. Luckily I have printed out the original advert when I brought it, which states it is a suppost to be 112bhp, so I have a good case.
Thing is that ive never had one of these before, so have very little to compare it with. I drove several before buying this one (all non 2.1), and this one drove the best. TBH ive been used to having high performance saloons so anything I drove would seem slower than them.
My bus is in great condition, but I may have paid to much for it as it hasnt got the output as per advert..
Would a 'DJ' code engine have a premium over a 'SS' code model ??

lloydy wrote:Before you believe the v5 check the m code sticker, it's a little White stick on label. On mine it's below the dash by the steering column. It will give you engine size and engine code as well as all the other options fitted at the factory. There is probably a way to tell by looking at the engine, but someone else will tell you that. By far the majority of vans are either mv or dj.

Just checked that sticker. it does state 'SS' for the engine code..

t25holdsworth wrote: Would a 'DJ' code engine have a premium over a 'SS' code model ??

Not really, but people prefer the dj

Of course it could also have had a replacement engine at some stage

So are there any other differences in the 'SS' to 'DJ' engines other than low compression-high compression ?

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/VehicleSpec ... engine.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here is the engine info, i dont think you'd pay more for a dj. when i was looking it was on the list, and the van i found had a dj. imho the body work comes first, interior, engine and anything else is a bonus.

ill pm you what i paid for mine. private sale though so a 1000 to 1500 more from a dealer

mark

i think that your finding problems that are not there, is there a problem with the engine thats installed in your van mechanically that is? the 2.1 wbx engines (i have had a dj and mv) that i have owned have have had a nice power curve and there was not too much between them, personally i preferred the mv, as it had a much smoother power delivery through the rev range. plus it had a more advanced injection system.

neil

axeman wrote:i think that your finding problems that are not there, is there a problem with the engine thats installed in your van mechanically that is? the 2.1 wbx engines (i have had a dj and mv) that i have owned have have had a nice power curve and there was not too much between them, personally i preferred the mv, as it had a much smoother power delivery through the rev range. plus it had a more advanced injection system.

neil

My code is 'SS' which is a full 20bhp less than what it was advertised as having.. OK 20bhp isnt that much, but Its nearly 20% more BHP than what ive got, plus an extra 20NM of torque would have been nice..especially as thats what it was advertised as having..

Look at it a different way. If the DJ has been tuned to run on unleaded then it won't be producing 112 BHP anyway. SS engines are less likely to throw their conrods through the crankcase and are a lot smoother.

bigherb wrote:Look at it a different way. If the DJ has been tuned to run on unleaded then it won't be producing 112 BHP anyway. SS engines are less likely to throw their conrods through the crankcase and are a lot smoother.

True, I've had last night to think about it,and today also, I'm going to contact the dealer and speak to them about the situation. They may or not offer anything. I do like this bus, and I know it's a good solid one and so will probably end up keeping it, as it will take me ages to find another as good bodily. Plus as you say at least I can run it on 91Ron unleaded without adjustment..it does drive well too, ok it's not quick, but that's not what it's about is it..
Another thought is that it would be easier and cheaper for the engine to be slightly modded, rather than spend a shed load on body restoration.. Been there and done that with old cars..condition it seems, takes priority over what lump it has with these vans..

To answer your question..

Are all 2.1 petrol models Injected ?

Yes, from the factory.

But I have removed my 2.1 injection system from the DJ engine and fitted a carburettor and manifold from a DG 1.9
With I am guessing some small power loss, though this has yet to be quantified.
Still returns a good MPG and quite similar to the injected figures.


What are these modifications you speak of?
The only one I can think of is not cheap and rather complex