Club 80-90 Forums

DOH. some friends have a cabin in the woods on the banks of the helford river here in cornwall. a beautifull place but an a*** to get to.
unless you have a syncro.
or a quad, which they have
or an argocat which we had the use of there when we were teenagers. ( although pre google, we didnt know it floated so never dared take it on the river.)
anyway, i have been driving the doka down there quite a lot this year doing maintenance and stuff. in the dry, the half mile track with a couple of steep bits through the woods is manageable without difflocks with just one or two tricky tree slaloms.
yesterday, it had been pi**ing down with rain for 48 hours but i carried on regardless because i have a syncro. with mt tyres, front and rear difflocks and i have never managed to get it stuck before.
on the way down the steepest bit, in g gear, it did a few unusual slides which i wasn't expecting. i carried on regardless.
on the way out however with 5 adults on board for some extra weight, i got half way up the slope with both locks on (i had to use them already by that point) and just stopped moving. all 4 wheels going round. no forward motion whatsoever. from that point, even backing it down was tricky as it seemed that i had no steering either.
the ground under 4 inches of sodden leaf mulch was a smooth hard clay. the rain just sits on top of the clay and gets soaked up by the mulch.
i frustratedly wondered what more could a good 4x4 do than have good mud tyres a low gear and 2 difflocks?
i have had to leave the truck in the woods till we have had a couple of good dry days. there are too many low overhangs to want to take the camper down to help.
from looking at the tyre marks on the way up the track, i could see that i was over steering a lot which certainly wasn't helping. i.e. if i wanted to steer right and turned the wheel a little bit and nothing happened then i would turn it a little more till at some points my front wheels were trying to climb out of the track and not helping at all.

any advice would be very much appreciated. i think i am missing some vital pieces of information here.


now the bonus...
Lucy woke up this morning and the first thing she told me that what i really needed was a winch!

see. every cloud has a silver lining.

Let your tyre pressures right down, try 15psi. And try and be as gentle as possible on the power. This is a low torque situation where not spinning up the wheels too much will help.

The argocat would manage it because it has very low ground pressure and would grip on just the surface of the mud. letting the tyres down may give you more traction by increasing your grip area.

Steering with front diff lock on feels very odd, and if you do get moving I would want to get it off asap.

Find a farmer with a tractor and a chain.

Photos please!!

No steering? Disengage front difflock!

Sounds like the only thing that was missing was momentum! MT tyres when clogged up are as useful as any other tyre when clogged up so you need to keep the wheels spinning to keep the tyres from clogging. Another thing to remember is that light Syncros go more places than heavy Syncros!

I like the way your missus thinks!!

i like the way she thinks too!
and i will take some photos when i go back for the recovery.
thanks for the advice guys.

Simms hill has a hard rock base where wheelspin is your friend. Here are two videos showing the difference 4x4 makes and the grip of a syncro without front diff lock.

2wd and muddy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2jjG7gA0Zc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

syncro and wet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5OS1o8RWS0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You obviously didn't try hard enough ! The judicious use of waffle boards, shovels, lowering tyre pressures, and sometimes a high lift and a bit of a push from your passengers combined with a bit of momentum can usually get you out may take some time but can be done. On the Irish Syncro event had a very similar situation with my heavy hightop which bogged down in very wet leafmould/peat but managed to get her out as Clive can testify too.Ok took about an hour and a bit to get approx 200 metres but still got her out often if you can just get the van moved about a foot you're home free till the next bit To quote Galaxy Quest "never give up never surrender

Great advert for the syncro there Simon. Calm & smooth.
Amazing how the video changes you view & levels things out, for those that don't know it, Simms Hill it is a right 'orrible knarly lump of rock & mud

Some quick vids of waffle boards in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ3SmQozBfU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDDUK-hb ... ata_player" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ3SmQoz ... ata_player" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Slow and messy but will get you out

Lowering the tyre pressures on all 4 wheels will make a massive difference.

Sure that isn't a load of old woffle Paul

Hill climbing in those conditons can be

Dan,

People often attempt steep muddy climbs at Syncronaut site events, more occasionally on green lanes.
What we've found over many years now is maybe surprising, maybe obvious:

Letting tyres down does help in the final analysis (I've once been down to 12 psi to climbout on leaf mould at Coney farm after a downpourthe night before)

Attacking a hill in 1st gear that you've failed in G gear will often result in success provided the extra speed at the bottom can be capitalised on (no really tight turns)... max revs (in a diesel) is usually de-rigeur (and helps clear the tyres)

The above approach may need a bit of nerve, experience & confidence in your syncro and your skills. This is one reason we still run 'site events', to gain skills & experience ina relatively controlled environment (not forgetting the developing social side )

Either sit on the top of ruts or stay in them rather than trying to climb out or across them which generally proves to be impossible unless you have pre-dug 'getout notches' or laid some waffle boards.

We tend to vary on diff-lock culture, but Simon TooManyToys abd myself are often saying 'what's not to like' - lock arm against door card and aim her up that hill.

Yes occasionally, you do have to take a chance and aim for a gap in the trees... else a failed climb will result.


Don't always subscribe to lighter is alwasy better, on some surfaces the heavier camper seems to plough through a lot better than a light Doka, seems to depend on how far tyres are cutting through to a better base.

Just my thoughts!

Yes, a long time ago now, but it was Jake and Andy Amulet who said drop to 12 psi on that steep leaf mould slope...

HarryMann wrote:Yes, a long time ago now, but it was Jake and Andy Amulet who said drop to 12 psi on that steep leaf mould slope...

Well remembered Clive...and it drove up like it was on tarmac

HarryMann wrote: We tend to vary on diff-lock culture, but Simon TooManyToys abd myself are often saying 'what's not to like' - lock arm against door card and aim her up that hill.

Yes occasionally, you do have to take a chance and aim for a gap in the trees... else a failed climb will result.


!

I have power steering so front locker is a little more managable, but unless its slippery/wheel lifting/a dead straight run on hard stuff, its still near impossible to use more than a few degrees off straight ahead..
I do tend to use the lockers rather than find out I really needed them half way up.. often it can be too late..
On the "sites" where you can repeate a run easily, safely and without wrecking the lane/etc... with/without lockers can be tried along with different power techniques.. valuable learning experience..

And when attempting a difficult route up/down etc, stop and look, see whats there and see if there is an escape route.. For a bit of "insurance", better to rely on a tree, bank, large rock to stop a vehicle early than find speed takes over with low control and a large impact resulting...

Lower tyre pressures.. use lockers. (if you can head fairly straight, usefull if an assistant can switch the front one on/off for you in busy situations. try the gentle throttle approach first, limit wheelspin, try and feel when grip is being lost.. but it may need the lots of throttle and some good momentum to get past anything ripped and slippery, aim for unbroken surfaces where possible.. but be carefull not to drive to far off line as it may be very soft or suck you into something.. a good walk down and route planning is better than a "gung ho it'll be fine" power run.....

Is it just me, or does anyone else wish they were there with the challenge...?

Is it just me, or does anyone else wish they were there with the challenge...?

hehe. I imagine everyone who has responded

On very soft ground, one can get a lot of front lock on and lock your arm against the door (no power steering here) and if its likes the ground and bites - romp up & over some alarming banks and features.

But the simplest of ruts can prevent progress if they are slippy sided or have an uncompromising turdishness.