Club 80-90 Forums

Just thought I'd post up these pics just to remind everyone especially any new Syncro owners,

NEVER bump start the van in R (or G)

or this can easily happen


not exactly fixable



the reason it happens is that you are putting the weight of the van (say 2 tonnes), via the two axles through a 3:1 reduction gear ( ie multiplying the torque load) onto a gear that is running on a shaft that is supported by only 6mm of case material which is a weak spot





VW/Steyr could have made the case stronger there but then the next weakspot would have given, in this instance that gave too, the end of the main intermediate reduction shaft/gear (it's all one thing and muckle as a muckle thing, running in the biggest and strongest bearing in the whole box) has broken the support for it's end needle bearing


the engineers amongst you can work out the forces involved but the damage I think says volumes, it's a lot of force and "she cannae take it captain"

use first gear if you have to bump, it's big and strong and right next to the pinion bearing so the axial forces on the pinion shaft are the least , and if it doesn't start first bump then go and get a jump pack, another vehicle with some jump leads or fix the fault that stopping it starting readily

this customer is now facing a bill for nearly 1/2 of what he paid for the whole van

when it happens the box drops all it's oil in a matter of minutes and if you continue driving you'll destroy the box and could be facing a rebuild cost well in excess of £2k, and some parts are getting very hard to source and the prices are rising due to scarcity

also the diesel boys should note that the cover plate (that broken in 2 thing bottom right of first picture) to the reverse idler gear isn't very well protected so if you are taking heavy impacts at the back stop and check regularly cos it's easy to bust a bolt out of the case or crack the plate and also loose your oil. The Petrol one isn't immune to similar damage but because of the different engine bash bars is better protected; I'd say that originally the syncro was only going to be petrol but that demand and the change in fuel usage and especially demand from the military/utilities etc.. meant that they came up with the diesel version, because who ever signed off the diesel engine guard for production didn't really understand the concept of protection imho - there are additional protective plates for the diesel for sale on german ebay and some have made their own, if I did diesel I'd have some additional protection on there because I've seen a good few broke or damaged in this way.

Before driving long distance after heavy off roading check to see you aren't dropping gear oil first, say when you come out of the pub before driving home, otherwise the first you'll know is when the box siezes on the motorway


This isn't to put peeps off using the vans like we do, just a case of forewarned is forearmed and be prepared

and ENJOY

cor blimey.

Ouch!

Superglue will fix it

Could you get the same effect in G gear going down hill using engine braking?

twiggy wrote:Could you get the same effect in G gear going down hill using engine braking?

the box should happily withstand normal usage like that it's the sudden off/on that you get when dropping the clutch on a bump start and particularly with an engine that doesn't want to start; and G gear is less susceptible to breaking the box due to the design, I only caution against jump starting in it because of the reduction gear's torque multiplying effect and the fact that G is as far away from the inputs as it can be so all the load has to travel along the full length of both shafts and increases likelyhood of deflection particularly if there is wear (play) in the bearings

It's been pointed out to me that if you bump in 4th you will get faster engine cranking, which is correct, but I'd caution against that as third and 4th gears have very fine teeth and I've seen a fair few of these stripped, if engine doesn't want to start then the gear could be stripped; so then 2nd gear would be the best compromise of strong gear, short shaft length (thus minimal deflection) and proximity to pinion bearing, and quicker cranking speed, probably more important for the diesel boys with more compression, but a wbx that wants to run will generally start very easily and if it doesn't there's something up

as I said if it doesn't want to start fix that fault don't risk the gearbox by repeated bumping

I carry a jump pack, and not just for starting the neighbours cars

Aidan wrote:
It's been pointed out to me that if you bump in 4th you will get faster engine cranking, which is correct,

No you wont! If you bump in second at say 25 mph you'll get about 3000 rpm at the engine. If you bump in fourth at say 25 mph you'll get about 1700 rpm at the engine.

Be carefull even in first, bump started the van and must admit was a bit quick with cutch. Left small fridge on.
50 miles later strange noise and dead pinion.
Would have saved £1000 for spare pinion/crown & rebuild if I had brought a £10 battery saver from Maplins Doh!

In any vwhicle I would only ever use 2nd or 3rd... less torque transmitted.... not much more that a good running pace in second should start most things...

twiggy wrote:Could you get the same effect in G gear going down hill using engine braking?

Nope.. engine already turning and even on a closed throttle its still trying to idle, developing its own extra momentum...