Club 80-90 Forums

Hello folks,

1980 a/c

4 speed box

anyone any ideas why, as the journey gets longer, first gets harder?

When she's cool, gear selection no problem at all. When warm, first gets very hard, but does go in. Comes out sweet as a nut. All other gears fine, apart from reverse, which makes dreadful noise (again only when hot)

have a got a hydraulic clutch, or cable clutch??

thanx in advance

Emma

Either the clutch is dragging when hot, or the gearbox oil is low...

prob the first.

have a got a hydraulic clutch, or cable clutch??

Could have either according to ETKA, take a quick look? Either at pedal box or at clutch operating arm on bellhousing between engine and transaxle.
If cable going onto op arm, then cable, if theres a hydraulic pipe/tube going into a slave cylinder with a bleed nipple onit, connected to the op arm, its hydraulic.

thanks Harry,

back under the van at the weekend, then....

Emma

Have been under the van - it is hydraulic....no simple adjustment of the cable then!!

Now do I buy both master and slave? Is one more likely to be the culprit?

There is no puddle of fluid under the van, or in the footwell, and the level in the reservoir is just below max, as it has been since I bought the van a year ago.

Have looked at KJ - does anyone else sell them - can't find a listing in GSF - are we type 2 or 3 for their on-line shop?

Mechanic on standby for Monday; need to get parts ordered/collected tomorrow.

thanx in advance for any help

Emma

Now do I buy both master and slave? Is one more likely to be the culprit?

NO

You don't even know its either yet!

Is one of tyhem dripping fluid?

Hi Harryman,

thanks for coming back - no there does not appear to be any leaks in the front of the cab. Have not had a decent grope around, but checked the levels in the reservoir, just below the max level. Will look again when I get home. Thinking about it, every coupladays there is a tiny (5p) sized oil drip under the engine, not the gearbox. This wouldn't be from the cylinder on gear box, would it?

Last night got decidedly worse - could only get first/reverse with the engine off, starting in gear, clutch depressed. Have left her at home, and got lift into work (flippin early!!). However, the occassional (and I mean occassional) gear change will be ok, the next will be impossible.

The biting point has got very low, and sudden - scoobs is jumping away in first, stiff into second, third and fourth OK. Out of first and out of second are ok, though.

If it isn't leaking, what else could be wrong? I know the clutch was changed July last year, and she has not done 10,000 since it was last done. Need to ger her back on the road!

Thanks for the help,
Emma

Either:

The clutch thrust bearing is breaking up inside or some other clutch operating problem has occurred inside or outside...

Has clutch been worked on in your ownership?
There's a recent thread discussing clutch pipe leaks above the fuel tank are you losing fluid (master cylinder common clucth/brake reservoir under dash pod)

Outside problem
1) - Bleed the clutch system out... believe Mocki has previously said a blockage can occur as well as the normal air getting into the system due blown seals

1a) Check and top-up the master cylinder to max mark (not to top)
If below max mark suspect a leak in system.

1b) Observe the clutch operating arm when the clutch pedal is being depressed fully - how far is it moving (only guessing, but at least an inch to release).
If not moving much, then suspect air in system, blockage, pipe fracture or master cyl/slave cyl seal is blown.

1c) Bleed it - either pressure bleed or bleed tube into bottle, best is to jam operating arm so that bleed action immediately forces fluid out of slave nipple.

1d) Does it work?

Yes -
Does it continue working?

No - Is the operating arm now moving a reasonable amount?

Yes - Internal problem - release bearing probably
No - Slave or Master cylinder problem


Inside Problem
2) Remove gearbox and inspect

Try that... others may have other insights...

Harryman,
thanks again for the comprehensive reply.

Will print it out, put it in a plastic cover and sidle upto the van this afternoon, armed with alot more knowledge than I had this morning. Will post results later.

Once again, thanks

Emma

Edited to add: Just out of interest, how much fluid do you have to lose to have these sort of problems? Also - is there any specific fuid we must lose, or do I get standard barke fluid? And can I mix with whats there? I spose that since I have not drained the fluid in my ownership (14 months) it would be wise to isolate the problem, drain and replace with new stuff?

Emma

DOT 4 compatible, not DOT5.. GSF will know

Don't drain it all out yet - focus on the problem, get the hydraulic system working as it should first, you'll need a patient helper to depress that pedal repeatedly and carefully unless you have a bleed tube into a bottle or pressure bleeder.

Wear gogs if near bleed point - can squirt out.

Harry,

a bit confused with the bleeding routine.

I don't have a pressure bleeder.
I have seen the eazibleed tool on line, but have not got one. Is this the bottle method you refer to? Don't think I can buy one locally - can we use jam jars and air-line/small hose?

In the absence of the above, and with the presence of the helper (patient remains to be seen, ) how do I bleed the system? You say about blocking the operating arm to force fluid out of the slave nipple. Is this bleeding?

What I intend to do for starters
1. Remove pod and check level - see if any different from before the problem got really bad
2. remove carpet and mats from cab area, inspect for fluid
3. Go to back of van, wipe down pipe so its nice and dry
4. Have a look at the places indentified in your thread above
5. depress the clutch, engine off
6. Assess how much the operating arm moves -
7. Revist all locations above and look for leakage/seepage.
8. Try and bleed the system

will let you know how hubby and I get on.

Many thanks for continued assistance, and sorry for the rather simplistic questions.
Emma

Hi, me again.

There's one good thing about having 3 vans - sommat to compare them with!

Ok - here's what I've discovered so far...

1. level in reservoir sitting on max
2. Dusty around the master cylinder behind the clutch pedal
3. Cluth pedal has alot more travel than the other vans before initial resisitance is felt
4. looking at the slave through the wheel arch - looks like moisture in the rubber bellows. This has the consistence of a thickish oil. The panel van has the same oily covering, but a little worse (no gear problems, yet though, but MUCH newer van!) The camper, though, is perfectly dry!
5. As advised, depressed clutch while hubby watched release arm. It moves in scooby, but does move further in the camper. Haven't tried the panel for comparison.
6. Occassionally, john heard a small sucking kind of sound while the clutch was being depressed and released. This was not present on the camper. I take it this is not good. Sucking or releasing air in the bellows??

Leaning towards replacing the slave cylinder....

what do you all think?
thanks in advance
Emma

If level correct and was not overfilled before, presume you can assume no bad leaks (a small slave cyl clutch leak letting air in won't always show much in level, thats a fairly big master reservoir)

So best thing now is get it bled, can do this:

1) without any tube
2) with a simple tube into a jar with some fluid already in, end below surface
3) with a bleeding tube (any motofax) having a one-way valve at the end
4) with a pressure bleeder, pumping up master reservoir.

For now, if you haven't the tubes, the technique (1) is:

1)Wheel off, jack stands, to get good accces;
2) jam up operating lever (helps);
3) loosen bleed nipple (good fitting ring spanner), then just nip back up putting some old cloth around area in readiness (Rem! gogs/eyes!);
4) call out to helper ' DOWN' - helper pushes smoothly, evenly to floor and holds there, whilst you loosen bleed screw as pressure comes on;
5) helper repeats 'DOWN' call when pedal hits the floor at which you quickly nip it back up, calling 'UP', when you have done so;
5a) helper repeats 'UP, when pedal back up, so you know you can then get spanner ready and call 'DOWN' again (try to leave ring spanner in a good position to nip and open bleed nipple enough to bleed a good stream in one turn without removing from nipple)
6) repeat... 4 & 5 till fluid issuing forth without air bubbles or spluttering each time you call 'DOWN' and loosen nipple. Maybe until clean fluid coming out.

7) Check and top up reservoir if noticeably down from max. (no need at each repeat of 4&5

Consider whether you have achieved 6) I so remove jam! (helper should never need to, or stand on pedal hard.)

9) Call DOWN and observe op lever travel... is it moving a decent amount (as discussed earlier)

10) Does clutch now work better
11) Does clutch continue to work better or does it quickly degrade again
12) Pop rubber bellows off slave cylinder to see if fluid is escaping around pushrod/piston. Ditto master cylinder, though should be pretty obvious by now if its.
13) Good luck..

Harryman,

That is the best and most comprehensive set of instructions I have seen since the ones on the peanut pack. Get them on the wiki quick!

"open packet"
"eat"!!!



Thankyou so very much for your continued patience with me. Will let you know the results of bleeding once done.

will go forth with confidence!
Emma

ermie571 wrote:
can't find a listing in GSF - are we type 2 or 3 for their on-line shop?



Emma

Emma, you have probably found the GSF website confusing because it uses the orignal VW Aircooled designations ie: Type 1 - Beetle,
Type 2 - Transporter, Type 3 - 1500/1600cc saloon/fastback/variant,
Type 4 - 411/412 1700/1800cc fastback/variant.

If you select Type 2 Aircooled you will end up with the parts list for a bay window so unfortunately you must grit your teeth & select the new fangled water cooled option & then press T25. You will find that the Aircooled parts are listed alongside the water cooled parts. Just look carefully at the
'dates' column eg: 79>82 or similar.

Thanks, glad you're making progress...

Missed a small step, now corrected, see 5a)