Club 80-90 Forums

Hi,

I need to time up our 2.0l petrol air cooled and have a timing gun but no rev counter.

Is it possible to do this without a rev counter - as everyone suggesting needs to be timed to 5 atdc at 850 rpm? How do I know if at 850 rpm without counter?

Cheers,

Chris

A nice stable "normal" idle speed is good enough... set it to 5 deg ATDC with both vacs connected to the duel vac dizzy (make sure the vac unit is actually working correctly before and tha tthe vac lines are good...) Oh, make sure the idle stabilising unit (if still fitted) is bypassed when timing...

Great - thanks for your help.

Sorry if this was a silly question - just wanted to check. I'll have a go later in the week...

Chris

Hi,

Finally got chance to have a go at the timing today.

Been out for a good long run last weekend (about 60 miles round trip) and van ran great - even sat in a traffic jam for best part of an hour and no problems. There did still seem to be a slight misfire but nothing too noticeable and just due to timing needing tweaking so took it easy anyway.

When I got the timing lamp on today, first check showed that the timing mark was way out - before the start of the timing scale so some 40+ degrees btdc!!?? I then tweaked the dizzy clockwise and advanced the mark to a far as I could get it before it misfired very loudly and cut out. This was still at about 8 degrees btdc - not the required 5 degrees atdc!!!

Am I doing something wrong here? For info. all vac hoses were connected and the idle stabiliser has now been permanently removed and disconnected. During our recent top end rebuild, I did remove the pulley wheel but we checked tdc before we put it back on and surely the van wouldn't fire is this far out? the dizzy driveshaft was reinstalled last week using tdc on the pulley wheel and was put it at what looked like the 12 degree angle AHynes recommends...

I did check that I hadn't done something silly like put the timing scale on the wrong 2 studs but it is correct...
Totally confused now...

Could be that leads are incorrectly fitted or you had timing light on wrong lead?

Cheers Covkid.

I'm sure I've checked leads are on correct and it has been running fine on long journeys etc...

I had the timing gun induction pick up lead on no.1 cylinder I believe which is what the instructions say. I will double check though in the morning...

Chris

Hi,

Right then, I've checked this morning and defo got leads on the right plugs and timing lamp induction pick up on no. 1 lead.

Therefore still confused!!

A mated popped around this morning and said not to worry about it too much, just get it so it sounds right and should be okay. He said it is probably something silly like the timing scale has warped or something but this guy does have a history of being gun-ho! and my view is that if VW designed something to work in a certain way, it was done for a reason and therefore I want to get to the bottom of it...

Anyone got any further ideas???

Thanks, Chris

Any one got any ideas?

What's your timing at when you remove the vac pipes?
May be worth posting up a couple of pictures of your engine bay and timing marks so we can see how you have things set up.

hi,
i'll try and put some pics on tomorrow if i can - never done it before but got a photobucket account will have a go

Okay, had a look at the carb / vac pipes set up on the wiki and could I just check the following is correct set up:-

cone side of dizzy vac pipe (upper of two) connects to left hand carb (looking from back of vehicle forwards).
the other dizzy port (lower on main body) connects to left hand port on front of air box via t piece, then this then feeds onto the balance pipe at the back of the airbox
the right hand port on the front of the airbox connects directly to the port at the air intake vac unit on top / right hand side of airbox

Mine wasn't set up like this so I corrected and checked the timing via the lamp again - still the same.

I then took the vac pipes off the dizzy (both) and check with gun again - no apparent change. Does this mean my vac unit isn't working?

I also noticed there sounds like a hissing on right side of engine. Is this normal or could I have an air leak? For interest, all vac pipes are new / good condition (albeit don't seem that tight a fit in some of the ports) and the carbs I have refrubed with new gaskets recently.

Still don't know why timing would be so far away on the timing scale? I have checked again tonight that when turned engine over by hand to tdc, the rotor arm is pointinh to no.1 - still spot on...

I have take some photos and will try and post tomorrow if I get a chance.

Sorry - couple of other things; could it be that engine is not idling at high enough revs when I am timing up? timing mark seems to move closer to correct point if I pick the revs up?

Would it be correct to turn the dizzy body to the point where it gets highest revs at idle then retard very slightly by turning clockwise - think I read somewhere this would be close enough (but still concerned can't understand why not spot on timing mark)...?

Hissing could be the servo pipe - pipe from the manifold, worth a look.
Idle should be a steady tickover, with vac pipes removed and stabilizer plugs together, 7.5 btdc. high revs it should advance to no more than 30 btdc. Retard pulls it to ATDC on idle - vac pipe closest the dizzy. Advanced on cone side.
may be worth a look at this - question i asked when I was setting the timing up after sticking new carbs on.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72602

Thanks for your response. I will have a look and try and do the 30 degrees max advance as recommended by Mr Baxter...

One thing though - I'm sure when I increase the revs, the timing mark moves clockwise so retarding not advancing??? This sounds like the opposite to what people are saying, i.e. should advance under higher revs not retard...

Am I missing the point completely or have I got something wired / set up the wrong way around?...

Chris

No, thats correct