Club 80-90 Forums

We have a 1984 1.9 petrol water-cooled T25 (DG engine). Two years ago we bought a recon Vege engine, but after the van had been standing unused over the winter water built-up in the sump. Once running the water would evaporate off, but I had to keep topping-up on longer journeys. I contacted Vege about this, but they weren’t very helpful saying that it was unlikely to be an internal fault, and out of guarantee anyway.

For a year I found that the loss was significantly reduced by adding K-seal, but when we took the van to Europe this summer we experienced overheating worries. Normally the temp gauge stayed within the box on the left, but at unpredictable times it would shoot to between vertical and three quarters over – not quite in the danger area but too close for comfort. I solved this for a while by raising the front and bleeding the system, but later the problem returned. We discovered we could reduce the temperature by putting the heater blower on, but not a pleasant solution for touring Italy in August.

This story is a long one because after about 1000 km we began to lose oil through the oil pressure sensor. Should have been easy to replace, but the mechanic in France damaged the thread (he blamed the English mechanic for inserting it incorrectly.) Fortunately I had breakdown recovery and the van was transported back to the UK. A month or so later the mechanic in the UK removed the engine and found about a cup full of water in the sump. He removed a rocker cover and saw water seeping around a head bolt, which seemed to be sealed with silicone sealant. In fact all the head bolts have silicone sealant around them.

Now that the engine has been removed I am thinking about contacting the retailer who supplied the recon engine. I would argue that it was never fit for purpose, so a guarantee period is irrelevant – but I need to be sure that there could be no other reason for the water in the sump – and of course I would need to pay for the thread to be re-drilled. If anyone has any useful comments or advice about any of this I would be very grateful. It's all too easy to leave the engine in the shed and forget about it!!

Hi and welcome... Surely if the original warranty is only for a year, then you really haven't got a leg to stand on? I would get it fixed and just put it down to experiance

A guarantee is not the same as being fit for purpose. If something is not fit for purpose then the purchaser has legal resource under the sale of goods act, no matter what the age.
For example if you buy a house and the roof leaks after six weeks thats a guarantee issue but if the walls fall down after ten years then it was not fit for purpose as a house should reasonably last much longer.
Obviously a claim has to be reasonable. however what constitutes 'reconditioned' under law is a very different kettle of rotting mackerel.
Is this definitely silicon sealant?

Hello Cafnod - Thanks for your reply. Well it looks like silicone sealant, but I doubt that I could make a claim of not being fit for purpose based on this. The oil in the sump is the major concern, which presumably has another cause.

Hi Nic
Many years ago I served my apprenticeship. It was a great life, I lived breathed slept and ate trucks/bikes at the time. among other things we used to service a fleet of Austin FX4 Taxis. One summer Friday afternoon I fired up the 2.5 BMC gold seal recon I had just fitted, walked over to the workshop and ended up running back in horror to pull the stop as I saw the oil emerging from under it.
Porous block.
There were a lot of these engines being exported at the time and I assume it was hard to get them for reconditioning and this one had been sitting somewhere with its problem.
I wonder if thats whats happened to yours?
Porosity between the oilways and waterways, gradually getting worse? Water at a greater temperature and pressure than the oil finding its way into the oiways and thence the sump.
I take it you have pressure tested the cooling system and compression tested the engine to eliminate the usual suspects; Head gasket etc?
HTH
Richard

Richard - yes the mechanic who fitted the engine did various pressure and compresson tests when the problem first became apparent, but can't remember the details now. His conclusion was that it was an internal problem. Trouble with recons is that you don't know the condition of the original engine. I wish now that we had had our old one reconned, rather than exchanged. But I tend to think the company has the responsibility to inspect an engine before reconditioning it, and test the reconned engine properly before supplying it. The improvement caused by the K-seal suggests that there may be some porosity like you suggest - or hairline cracks perhaps.
Thanks again
Nic

Well surely if the supplier was aware at the time the problem manifested itself and conducted tests then he is either;
1 Admitting liability of a faulty product that has just got worse to the point of being u/s OR
2 If he just fitted the engine then he can honestly say that he diagnosed a problem that has got worse over time.
Either way the engine was not FFP and you have a motor trade professional to support this.
Its not like after a 100k the big ends have gone or the piston rings worn, its a genuine case of a problem that is not down to usual wear and tear.
I doubt you will get another engine for nothing but I would hope they will offer you a reasonable settlement.
Whereabouts are you BTW?

Scenario no. 2 applies. I'm near Totnes, in South Devon. The mechanic ran a two man VW campervan business in Okehampton, which is a lovely drive across Dartmoor. He has ceased trading now owing to a down turn during the credit crunch, but I have his contact details and he is happy to help further. It seems like my best opton is to send a letter by recorded delivery to the retailer - JustKampers - and argue that it is not FFP. I deliberately paid by credit card, which may give me some extra legal redress under section 75.

Cheers

Nic

Hi again Nic
Yes protection under section seventy five as you say. I pay for many things via CC to gain protection. Normally the only times it goes pear shaped is when I dont.
Get the guy tol write you an engineers report for JK, the fact that the engine was fitted by a motor trade professional speacialising in that marque helps enormously.
Probable that he did other business with JK. I never have so cannot comment on them as a company, although it seems they are a bit cheap and cheerful.
If I was nearer I would write an undependant report but I am not a VW specialist on T25's, just a motor engineer who is qualified on light and heavy motor vehicles, although I am a qualified MOT tester and have served as both quality controller and authorised examiner at various car and commercial garages including main dealers.
My numbers are in the members help section if you wish to speak directly on this.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZs time
Richard

I didn't expect you to respond after midnight! Thanks for your kind offer of assistance, Richard. I will see how JK respond then get written evidence if they insist. They will probably ask me to send the engine back to the manufacturers - at my expense of course.

Regards

Nic

Up anyway Nic I do a lot at night.