Club 80-90 Forums

Hi all,

Edla has been quoted £400 for tappett replacement (hydraulic ones and unable to adjust further). Not sure if that includes labour.
Was told by mechanic that a new engine costs £700 from Elite (that seems right cheap to me - The Engine Shop want over a grand, I'm sure)
So... is it worth doing the tappets, or replacing engine, or ignoring for the time being?
(Engine pulls as far as I'm concerned - just a bit noisy and maybe drops a bit of oil now and then) - oh and just remembered, one cylinder doesn't seem to be firing (which is due to the tappets)

**** Edited engine: 1.9DG water cooled Petrol - 1984 A reg'd ****
Sarah x

for the sake of £300 i know what i would do.......

drop the oil , reset the tappets and then is things are still as bad rethink about where to go

if you cant do the oil and tappets pm toomanytoys

sezicoolcat wrote:Hi all,

Edla has been quoted £400 for tappett replacement (hydraulic ones and unable to adjust further). Not sure if that includes labour.
Was told by mechanic that a new engine costs £700 from Elite (that seems right cheap to me - The Engine Shop want over a grand, I'm sure)
So... is it worth doing the tappets, or replacing engine, or ignoring for the time being?
(Engine pulls as far as I'm concerned - just a bit noisy and maybe drops a bit of oil now and then) - oh and just remembered, one cylinder doesn't seem to be firing (which is due to the tappets)

Sarah x

something doesn't sound right here. i'd get the tappets set properly as per the book cos the only time i've known tappets stop a cylinder firing is if they're set too tight. the hydraulic ones should really never need adjusting. the do rattle loudly if the engine is stood for a long time and also sometimes if the modern synthetic oils are used but this nearly always cures itself on a long run. what caused the "mechanic" to adjust them in the first place? and did it run on 4 cylinders before he did them.

As far as I know, (waiting for Mark (VWcamperfan) confirmation on this ) its always ran on just 3 cylinders since I had her. (18 months). Gives a back fire (or a miss fire - not sure which) and "taps" or "pinks" a bit (however, I like the tapping noise)

If your going to apps court, you could ask for some helpful advice there.....

I haven't done much dabling with the T25 hydraulic tappets but if the engine has done significant mileage with insufficient tappet clearance then a burnt valve is a strong posibility. I would suggest winding in some definate clearance so as to ensure complete valve closure and do a compression check. A rebuilt engine could be a sledgehammer to crack a nut on hearsay evidence/opinion
Cheers
Wolfie

Mmm..
do an oil and filter change.. use 20w50 oil...
Pop the rocker covers off and set each adjuster so it just touching + quarter of a turn in.. when each cyl is at TDC.... then go for a good drive...
Actually unless stuff has been changed recently I would do a full service and tune up.. ie new dizzy car/rotor/leads/plugs/air filter/carb clean out and reset etc etc.., certainly cheaper than getting the lifters done or an engine.. (Unless the engine is leaky and tired, smokey and original)

The problem with the wbx is the pushrod tubes can only be fitted with the heads off.. unless you get the colapsable tubes (which last time I looked were £25 each, so doing more than 2 gets very costly).. As far as I am aware there are no type 1 tubes that work, or work propperly.. so either way its a costly job.. and removng heads is an altogether can of worms..

As far as 3 cyls for 18 months...
A.. it would get a lot worse...
B.. It would never pass an MOT emissions........ legally...

Certainly it might be worth slackening off the adjusters to do a compression check.. but a burnt exhaust valve gets worse and worse and would happen within a month or so of regular driving..

sezicoolcat wrote:As far as I know, (waiting for Mark (VWcamperfan) confirmation on this ) its always ran on just 3 cylinders since I had her. (18 months). Gives a back fire (or a miss fire - not sure which) and "taps" or "pinks" a bit (however, I like the tapping noise)

You really need to get a T25 experienced mechanic to look at this.

Elite recon engines are around a £1000 by the way, plus a £200 deposit against your old engine until they get it back and have checked that it is good enough to become another recon job.

Hydraulic tappets hardly ever fail, though sometimes they need to be removed, cleaned out and re-primed (which is usually a head off job and therefore a REALLY risky and expensive operation on our WBX engines) though as has been said above, collapsible pushrod tubes are available (at a price) and are by far more preferable than a head off strip down and all that entails !!!!!

Has it really only run on 3 cylinders since you had it, like 45 MPH flat out and 12 miles to the gallon ?

A backfire is a load bang.
A misfire is a hesitation in the willingness of the engine to run smoothly.

You say you like the tapping noise, you really shouldn't because it is a sign that something is going to break sooner or later.

You also say it "pinks" a bit, if it does, this is also VERY bad and can ruin your engine quite quickly (pinking sounds like a blacksmith tapping a hammer on an anvil but with a very fast, regular beat, usually worse when accelerating away.

The first thing to do is set the tappets as per info quoted above by toomanytoys.
Then get a compression test done to make sure all the valves are OK.
Then get the ignition timing and plugs / leads checked (ignition timing wrong often results in "pinking" by the way)

If all is well and firing on all 4, change the oil and filter, then take it for a 60+ mile drive on a fast road. This will often settle the tappets down (but only if set correctly in the first place).

.

Follow the advice T'onion and Toomanytoys have given you. If no improvement have Si do the job or (based on where you are) take it to Elite for the tappet job.

Ian.

Citizen Smith wrote:I haven't done much dabling with the T25 hydraulic tappets but if the engine has done significant mileage with insufficient tappet clearance then a burnt valve is a strong posibility. I would suggest winding in some definate clearance so as to ensure complete valve closure and do a compression check.

zero lash on hydraulic tappets unless they are solid lifters

kevtherev wrote:

Citizen Smith wrote:I haven't done much dabling with the T25 hydraulic tappets but if the engine has done significant mileage with insufficient tappet clearance then a burnt valve is a strong posibility. I would suggest winding in some definate clearance so as to ensure complete valve closure and do a compression check.

zero lash on hydraulic tappets unless they are solid lifters

Sorry Kev but putting a tiny bit of clearance in, just to check compressions, is often done.

Something else to look for is a cracked manifold at the head, I've just replaced my exhaust (also on an early 83 van) and found two broken headers, one completely broken off the other cracked about a third of the way round. Mine had sounded tappety for a couple of years, it really didn't sound like a blowing exhaust (well until the pipe gave way completely), but it pulled ok and returned 20-24mpg. Fitted the new exhaust and the tapping has gone away completely.

same as some of the above comments,

Do be aware when you are setting hydraulic lifters that the push rod is a pain to sit correctly in the hydraulic lifter, sometimes dropping down and resting on the outside of the lifter,
This means that when you wind you hydraulic rocker shaft to contact the valve stem,when you need to wind it in further just ends up opening the valve.
I have seen and heard of this a number off times.

£400 to replace to hydraulic lifters!!!! they are taking the pi$$, you DON'T need to remove the head,
Remove rocker cover.
Remove rocker shaft.
Pull out pushrod.
grab hold of pushrod tube and pull down to bend it (you will be damaging it) to remove it.
Strong magnet to pull out hydraulice lifter
fit new lifter
Buy and fit new spring loaded pushrod tube from CSP (very good quality IMO)
Refit pushrods and rocker shaft
Adjust rocker shaft making sure the push rods are seating properly
Fit rocker cover.
I may have missed the odd thing but this really isn't worth £400,

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have van back now (brakes done, which is what needed doing after the fronts cooked on th way home from Cotswolds meet).

Van defo shifts. I can get it to do over 70mph - 85 sometimes (if the wind is in the right direction lol). But its not so great going up hill (even slight gradient), but it makes it around 50 uphill on motorway when all around me are belting past.

Mechanic is a T25 enthusiast (he has one) and will probably be joining us on club80-90 forum, - he said he might come to the next Apps Court meet end of this month, (so please be nice...)

Tappets cannot be adjusted further, so I guess it will be new pushrods and tappets over the winter then - time to get my hands dirty

Sarah