Club 80-90 Forums

Been talking to Merc Doctor and others about Rock n Roll beds and my reservations on their safety. Typically I'm seeing many of these (often MDF affairs) screwed to the bulkhead with flimsy screws. These will not stay where they are in a heavy impact, and with anyone seated on one, I dread to think what might happen. Merc Doctor recalled one instance he knew of where the impact (a head-on) shunted the fridge so far forward, it took out two cupboards and numerous tins of food - squashed like a pancake.

I only carry my five year old (rather than hoards), but I always put him up front where I feel he is far safer.

I'm mentioning all this because a while back I mentioned making a rear bed/seat that would at least hold its own in a heavy impact, certainly surpass the kind of standards expected of front seats, as well as being extra protection for an LPG tank contained within. I will be starting work on this over the next few days having procured the core materials. Will post pics as I go. It does involve heavy fixing plates both sides of the bulkhead to prevent the seat from being ripped out so maybe a little beyond some, but might give you a better idea of just what really is needed to ensure the rear seat doesn't just tear itself out.

Will post in modified forum

Answer is simple, buy a Westy that has been crash tested and deemed safe by Germans and not a load of chipboard thown in the back of a van by the English that say "That'll do".
I would love to see a Liesuredrive/Autohomes/Holdsworth in a crash test once they have taken the roof off for one of their High Tops, I think only the Reimo vans I've seen have acutally put any strength back in to replace whats been removed.

With you there Simon although a tadge less expensive than buying a Westy and should form the basis of a nice strong core. Mind you, thats assuming that the vehicle structure still has integrity

ChickenKoop asked me today if I thought it was going too far but really, theres not much point in being triumphant that you have a small hideaway cupboard to store fig rolls in if you can't guarantee some degree of protection to those on the back seat. In a way I'm not surpised JK are knocking out the complete MDF rear beds for £50 now. MDF isn't known for its massive strength and I definately wouldn't put kids on one. OK for an overnighter in a converted panel van but for the safety conscience its not great. After all, look at the requirements for the fitting of an LPG tank with straps and plates yet a seat seems to have none of these requirements. Too many going around in with 'L' brackets an small self-tapping screws.

That rear bulkhead has some real strength to it actually - case of working with it and ensuring that everything bolts together snug and up to standard.

Ralph - CovKid

Having completely stripped the interior out to a bare shell the quality of build on my Autohomes is poor to say the least and 90% of it is in the local refuse dump. The rear seat is very poor in terms of how its secured but being a Karisma model it is a 'for two' model and as such isn't designed to carry passengers in the rear (which is just as well really as it is mainly secured with self tappers, a few screws and pop rivets). No additional strength either, the roof is lopped off and thats it it! If you want quality you buy German! I bet Westy owners don't find all the metal cut outs and swarf from the cutting of the window apertures, water filler, EHU point (tons of it) lying behind the panels rusting away - Autohomes fitters couldn't even be arsed to remove them, they fell into the van and there they stayed - 'cwap!

About to measure and cut the seat frame. A neighbour has kindly offered to weld it up for me (he does it for a living and is much quicker than I would be) - just a case of double-checking measurements as I need everything to be spot on. I'll note all these for a future WIKI but this seat base won't be going anywhere in a shunt. It could however be unbolted if it ever needed to be. There will be some flexibility in terms of choice of materials but the fixings will be the same, consisting of steel plates both sides of the bulkhead. If run full width it should also offer additional strength to most vehicles against side impacts but its principal role will be in providing a stable and safe base for the rear seat.

I chose the Bluebird customs r&r. Steel frame and bolted properly down.

Excellent seat those although I needed a set width to accommodate length of my LPG tank so has to be custom made. Also plan to have drawers one end for tools.

CovKid wrote:Been talking to Merc Doctor and others about Rock n Roll beds and my reservations on their safety.

Interested to follow your project, but not sure I agree with the premise. I too have an Autohomes which is built basically on the origami principle, which means the R&R bed is flimsy to say the least. BUT while travelling the kids are firmly strapped in with regulation seat belsts which are very firmly fixed to the original mount points (plus the others I've had to drill in the bulkead). In a forward shunt the belts will hold the kids in place. The bed has no mass, so comparatively little kinetic energy to restrain. Industrial strength frames would add to the mass and kinetic evergy - which may be counter productive.

Side-impact? Well, if the van struture doesn't absorb it I don't see any bed improving on it. As for a rear-shunt, if the bed collapses towards the rear (possible) there's quite a lot of crumple zone behind it, and the T25 has more pretty effective crumple zone at the back (engine) than most vehicles.

I'm no fan of Autohomes build quality, but on this one I'm happy to trust what is effectively the structural integrity of the original van.

Just my two penn'orth...

Having completely stripped the interior out to a bare shell the quality of build on my Autohomes is poor to say the least and 90% of it is in the local refuse dump.

The Autohomes T25 we had for a short while, had rear seatbelts bolted to the chipboard cupboards!

Melvin

Fozzie wrote: while travelling the kids are firmly strapped in with regulation seat belsts which are very firmly fixed to the original mount points (plus the others I've had to drill in the bulkead). In a forward shunt the belts will hold the kids in place. The bed has no mass, so comparatively little kinetic energy to restrain.

All the same what I don't want is kids being restrained by belts but the seat rips out. That too would be counter productive. If I had any faith in MDF and 'L' brackets, I'd be happy to put my kid on the seat but I don't and until thats resolved, my son is up front. If one or two fellas can tear the seat out with their bare hands then I don't see that as adequate and sadly thats the case with too many of them, with just self-tappers holding the seat in. Worse, folk tend to pile stuff in the back against the back of the seat which can contribute to the problem considerably. Theres also a real hazard of rear furniture, particularly DIY chipboard and MDF, flying forward and injuring front passengers

The bluebird seat is a much better seat, particularly when its bolted through, but again that would be at the mercy of whatever plates are fitted the other side of the bulkhead. If you applied all the standards applicable to front seats in cars, a rear MDF job wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of being accepted, I think most would accept that. Mind you, all of this applies to cupboards too in the cheaper conversions, many of which are barely attached and joints work loose over the years. I simply couldn't live with myself knowing I'd put my children at risk for the sake of saving a few quid.

Autohomes place the enormous water tank directly under the seat and the construction and bracing of the rear seat assy is not good enough IMO to hold it in place in the event of an head on collision if the tank were filled. Most peeps will drive with an empty or part filled tank which is just as well really. The only thing that holds the tank in place is the wooden seat bulkhead sctrewed to the floor and two pop riveted straps.

Sorry to highjack but what do people use for a rear bed base with the bluebird custom bed?

Its pictured above.

A mate does alot of work on very Rusty Campers (Split and Bays) ans has similar view on rear seat belts on flimsy structures. He is always geeting asked to put seat belts on RnR beds that have loose fit cushions! As hes points out, the kids will just submarine under the belt as the cushion flies forward.

Hes at the point where he refuses to fit belts in the back of them.

Cruz wrote:Sorry to highjack but what do people use for a rear bed base with the bluebird custom bed?

I have that seat frame, mine was origanly for a bay , but easy to alter to fit T25 if you have a mig !! I built up the back in timber to make it all level when in bed mode, which is well handy as all my tools fit in the now void space!