Club 80-90 Forums

hi thanks for all the help it was bad wiring on one end of the hook up lead in the end!!!

hi campers last weekend on the isle of arran we were camping at a nice campsite in lamish, at first we tried using the electric hook up and seemed to be getting tiny shocks of the van(we found out the electricity at site seemed to have tripped), tried it again sometime later (after the the owner had checked and said a fuse had tripped something to do with someone using a kettle or somthing) and it gave me an electric shock when i touched the doors and handle so we just unplugged and didnt use it after that!
is this a bad earth or some sort of security device!! lol

p.s we did happen to meet a nice couple in the plot next to us also in a T25 which was nice only 2 on the site

any ideas??

Sounds very much like your van chassis isn't earthed to the RCD if fitted or the site has a faulty earth on their EHU, thread on this just recently "Should my van be earthed" .

Unfortunately there may be several issues here.

Right to start, you said "tiny shocks". Is it a mains type shock or a static electric shock? A mains fault one will happen everytime you touch the van when hooked-up, a static one will happen once but once discharged you should be able to touch the bodywork without receiving a second one and will happen regardless of being hooked-up. (That may seem obvious but best get the obvious out of the way to start).

Is this the first time ever you have used the hook-up?

The thing to understand about RCD's (the sensitive 'trip switches') is that they will only 'trip' under certain conditions;
1. The fault current must have a path to earth (and it's not fussed whether that's via a copper cable or via you) AND
2. The fault current must be above a certain magnitude (30mA is the usual setting)

What I suspect is happening here is that you do indeed have a fault which is finding it's way onto your bodywork but is not sufficiently bad to exceed the RCD's 30mA setting so the shock you are receiving might be say, 25mA. If it were greater than 30mA, both the RCD in your van and the RCD at the hook-up point should 'trip' (unlikely, but not impossible that they could both be faulty). The thing to understand here is that they should trip regardless of whether the vans earthing or the hook-up earthing (or both) is knackered; you have become the 'earth' as soon as you touch the van.

There are lots of other considerations here; your vans hook-up earthing, the campsite's hook-up earthing, whether your bodywork is connected to the van hook-up earth or not etc but for now I would suggest the following:

Get an electrician to swap the 16A blue hook up plug on your hook-up lead for a 13A plugtop and test that the lead is without fault. Plug it into the household socket circuit (which should be on it's own 30mA RCD by the way). Without touching the van metalwork jump in through the sliding door and switch the hook-up main RCD switch into the 'on' position. Press the 'Test' button on the RCD and it should 'trip'. If it doesn't it's knacked. Jump out (mind the metalwork!!) and unplug the hook-up. Get the electrician to carry out a FULL test and inspection of the van hook-up and internal wiring. If this proves fault free and hunky-dorey, he might as well issue you with a certificate saying so while he's there. The only other way of getting a fault on the van is via the mains equipment in the van such as the mains side of the fridge so get him to 'PAT' test any mains equipment in there. If these pass aswell then the only other option is that the campsite hook-up was at fault and you should be able to plug your hook up back into the household socket, switch your hook-up on, switch the mains equipment in the van on and................touch the bodywork

You may find that the household sockets RCD 'trips' the moment you hook-up in which case go straight to the test and inspection part.

I agree with 1664, w.h.s pretty much covers it, although I wouldn't swap the blue plug just use an adaptor to a 13A plug in case condensation has caused tracking inside the blue plug which you wouldn't find if you swapped the plug.

This potential hazard, and why RCDs and a good earth are vital, is why I decided to have a mains hookup that is transformed down to 12volts at source. In a worse case scenario, a bad fault and inadequate protection and you could get zapped for good. After all, the vehicle sits on rubber tyres, so you step out, grab the door opening and - POOF!

Anyway, on a visit to Colchester, an electrician friend (Thanks Smurf!) gave me this massive powerpack with a carrying handle that delivers 12v at up to 17 amps. I couldn't see what I'd actually need 240 volt for as everything I use tends to be 12v anyway. I could always couple an inverter I guess for anything 240v but so far had no need for that. At the moment it has a standard household 13amp plug on it but I'll change that for a regular hook up plug.



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It was actually designed for testing trailer lights but at 17 amps would seem WAY more than enough to supply power for all electrical needs.

Mine is an earlier version without a rotary testing knob and am now adapting it so it supplies various cigarette lighter sockets in the bus and should fit fine under the back seat. It also doubles as a battery charger (dispensing with a zig I suppose) and a portable 12v supply in the workshop.

Come on the Posler, what exactly was it then?

Covkid, if your hook-up electrics have been installed properly and the right materials used (double isulated, RCD etc) the chances of this senario occurring are infinitesimal. Physical damage has to occur to the installation. Generally, whenever someone receives an electric shock (anywhere, not just in a camper) several lines of defence have to have been breached by a series of cockups working in tandem to create the necessary conditions.

Which is why Posler I'd be interested to know what you found............................

well i have 2 leads (made them up myself) one campsite hook up and one with a standard plug tried the standard plug one outside the house last night and everything was fine battery charger fridge, etc all worked. so when i checked the wiring on the hookup lead one end was ok the other end the live neutral and earth were all in the wrong place's (must have been a long evening when i wired them ) so i corrected it and think that should have sorted it seams the one withg the standard plug worked fine!! thanks 1664

I realise you're now sorted, but for others coming to this thread a fault such as this might have been a fault with the campsite.

If the supply system was badly designed or installed or has been bodged together then the earth that your van is stood on can be at a different voltage to the earth supplied by the mains supply.

Essentially a single earth point (where the earth cable is fixed to real physical earth) is only valid for a certain radius, known as the equipotential bonding zone, and all earth or things stuck into the earth within this zone should be at a single voltage.

If you take an extension lead beyond this zone and plug an appliance (or campervan) into it, the earthed chassis of the appliance (or campervan) can be at a different voltage to the real physical earth the van is stood on.

Only takes someone to extend a TNC-S or TNC-C beyond the equipotential zone and you can get all tingly when you touch the metal.

Makes me wonder about carrying an isolating transformer and earth spike with me to create an IT supply for the campervan... Then again you need to know what is upstream to know it is safe to create an IT supply.

bangadrum wrote:I realise you're now sorted, but for others coming to this thread a fault such as this might have been a fault with the campsite.

If the supply system was badly designed or installed or has been bodged together then the earth that your van is stood on can be at a different voltage to the earth supplied by the mains supply.

Essentially a single earth point (where the earth cable is fixed to real physical earth) is only valid for a certain radius, known as the equipotential bonding zone, and all earth or things stuck into the earth within this zone should be at a single voltage.

If you take an extension lead beyond this zone and plug an appliance (or campervan) into it, the earthed chassis of the appliance (or campervan) can be at a different voltage to the real physical earth the van is stood on.

Only takes someone to extend a TNC-S or TNC-C beyond the equipotential zone and you can get all tingly when you touch the metal.

Makes me wonder about carrying an isolating transformer and earth spike with me to create an IT supply for the campervan... Then again you need to know what is upstream to know it is safe to create an IT supply.

Please don't take offence but there are five earthing arrangements; TT, TN-S, TN-C-S, IT and TN-C. the final one (as far as I know) is simply not allowed, the forth one I believe you need special dispensation from the Home Office (probably called something else now) for.

The campsite hook-up should be TT (earth spike) and nothing else. An isolation transformer doesn't require an earth and you are not allowed to create an IT arrangement.

I am aware of the 5. My fingers typed the wrong letters, thank you for correcting me

In my world (live events) for smaller events that have traditionally been supplied by the long extension lead is not uncommon to create a IT supply by use of a local isolation transformer and earth spike.

TT is avoided to minimise any possibility of potential between neutral and earth.
Earth isolated systems are undesired as all metal (equipment, stage, trussing etc) should be earth bonded to each other (and to real earth if outdoors), which then turns your isolated supply to an IT.

I don't create the supplies, just use them, so I don't know the precise legalities, just enough to know what the electrician is giving me and what I can and can't do with it.

Anyhow, well off topic by now!