Club 80-90 Forums

2.1 dj on carb 5 speed box

Hi folks, wonder if someone could point me in the right direction.

Got in the bus this morning, drove half a mile, got to a traffic queue for lights, battery and oil light flickered, engine stalled. Van in first gear, clutch fully depressed. Peculiar. Pulled van out of gear, and started van. No gears. Nothing. (didhn't pull hard on gear stick)

Let hand brake go, and rolled onto pavement. Phoned hubby, the AA then work.

AA attended in 20mins - a real gent who wanted to get it fixed. He gave the gear stick a little encouragement, and got gears. (engine not running). Looked at the linkage. Found the front to be fine, play in the middle, and the back appeared to be fine. Put a screwdriver blade in central union and low and behold, all the gears returned, sweet and easy, as before!. Removed pin....looks worn. Cut a elength of threaded bolt with nuts on to replace pin as a get you home measure. Tried it, all gears - again, engine not running. Jumped in, fired it up....no gears?! AA man got in, with engine running, and got first....then all the gears. So I gets in, puts into first and pulled away. Lights change to green, off we go. Accelerate gently to second, put clutch in, van luches and slows as if engine braking. Left it in first and crept home with AA van behind me....only half mile or so.

Fortunately didn't have to stop anywhere!! Parked up on double yellows. Explained situation to AA. Then tried to move it to park properly...got first and reverse fine??!!

AA man didn't feel it was clutch....no slipping, and when gears engaged, it was pulling away fine. He has suggested it may be the rear linkage.

However, I can't understand why when I dumped the clutch I didn't get neutral.

Any ideas, anyone?

Em
x

ps - just spoken to my local garage (he has his own t25) and they have suggested that first point of call is to check the slave.....would it go intermittantly like that?

Em
x

what does the pedal feel like can you feel it squirm under take up ? Is the problem only 1st and r or all gear selection ?

Aiden,
Many thanks for coming back on this...it has me somewhat confused!

ok, initially, when I pulled up at hte lights, the engine stalled, although I had clutch down. I took the gear stick out of first...and restarted. van started fine, but no gears. It was if all the gates were blocked? The pedal did and does still feel fine. No leaks at the front (checked under the rubber mat too - its all dusty and dry), and the fluid has not dropped in the reservoir.

Mr AA checked all the linkage and found play in the middle joint. Replaced pin with threaded bolt. Got all the gears very smooth. As soon as van started, no gears. AA man found first, and I pulled away. But got engine braking as soon as I depressed the clutch.

Slight clunking now as shaft catches the bush at the petrol tank join - but that could have been there before.

Hubby started it last night, and with the engine running got all gears. Haven't ttried tonite.

Got friends coming over Monday to drop the engine and gear box. Any clue where to start would be brill! Sorry I didnt pick your response up earlier...rather unusually I was hectic at work today!

Cheers

Em
x

spigot bearing
clutch slave
clutch release bearing
clutch
flywheel/crank float
in that order would be favourite, but check the slave first as that is outside the box so no need to drop it out, then the others box out I'm afraid

Aiden,
thanks again.

The slave was where I was thinking of starting.

But, if we do have to drop the box, any tips?

We have axle stands, a trolly jack (and going to purchase one with a longer lift), a selection of spanners, sockets and rachets, and our friend has star drives which I think we need for the drive shaft bolts.

Cheers
Em
x

I gather Ian has answered your Q, but I'd check slave for leaks and bleed it after checking fluid level then test again, before committing to drop the box

HI Aidan (got spelling right this time!)

Yep, Ian has answered in full and in detail!!

Your advice regarding the slave is duly noted, and will be acted upon. Thankyou

Em
x

Well, it weren't the slave


Tea break then onto dropping the box....




Em
x

Em
reread the thread and wonder about the linkage, is the cupa and ball properly mated and the skirt of the boot pulled down over the cup, is the cup fully up, is there lube in the cup or dried up poly grease and road grime ?
Check out the linkage before you pull the box, and check gear selection at the box with the linkage off, engine running before dropping it, you can do it with wheels in the air provided you are absolutely sure that the van cannot fall off the axle stands for obvious reasons, but select gears with engine off, come out from under and then start engine each time so noone gets squished

Aidan,

Remember up there you said "SPIGOT BEARING" as no.1 port of call??


well......


Box out, clutch off, release bearing out of bell housing.....then as Ian advised finger in hole left by input shaft....I felt bits bits of metal; What came out on the magnetic screwdriver are tiny rollers about 1cm long and logs of bits of thin metal. So I guess its the spigot then!

Will have to tidy up and get one.....got everything else.....just not the sigot Doh!! Looks like another week off the road then, and next weekend putting it all back together. Understand that getting them in and out is a Bi----Itch of a job!

Oh well, saved ourselves a fortune at the garage I spose!

Em
x

Em
Glad you found the problem, easy wasn't it
you can break up the remains of the old one to get it out just don't damage the edge of the hole, (nice to have a slide hammer and internal bearing puller but not essential); fitting new one pretty straight forward (8mm or similar socket as drift) but make sure it goes all the way home, the outer shell of the bearing goes in about 1.6mm below iirc not flush with the end of the crank, and give it some grease but not too much otherwise you'll get a bit of hydraulicing as you fit it all back together which will make it oddly difficult to do.
Use a cable tie on the slave bracket to pull the clutch fork lever arm up will keep release bearing fully retracted and on the forks and reduce pressure while fitting. The cable tie will break when you press the clutch pedal once it's bled (or not if you left the slave connected and put it aside)
NB copper slip on the back of the release bearing tabs to reduce wear on the forks and if they are burred remove the burrs before fitting.
Check the state of the input shaft before refitting it all if the spigot end of the shaft is badly worn, pitted, grooved you'd be as well changing the shaft else it'll reduce the life of the bearing and you'll be doing it again before too long.
Regards
Aidan

Easy....??!! Ok - not too difficult! It was the unkowns more than anything else....and following instructions to loosen a gera box bolt that wasn't there Found a bolt in the box of bits that does the job

Aidan, your advice so far has been tip top, as has Ian's guidance on the phone and by PM! So many thanks to both of you. VWCamperfan has also supplied phone technical support -Thanks Mark!

Just one question from the advice above....how do we change the input shaft? Yes, it is a little scored at the end, so better to change me thinks. Now I have an old DK box in the garage....if its input shaft is ok is it a fit for the 2.1 that we are dealing with now? Is the input shaft an easy to obtain part? (sorry, 3 questions!)

Many thanks again for continuing to read and support.....it has been a learning experience, definitely, but we are getting there...have got some pictures that I will host later.

Em
x

Em
yes the one from your spare box will do the job.
To change it you need to remove the bellhousing (10 bolts, 4 outside, 6 inside 18FTlb when retightening) and with external c clip pliers open the c clip stopping the muff (vw term, sleeve in normal lingo) from moving and pull the sleeve forward towards the diff untill you can unscrew it from the mainshaft.
You may have to rotate the diff to find the position where there's enough room for the sleeve to come forward enough to clear the splines. Something about a foot long with a 5mm bent end to hook under the sleeve is useful but your magnet tool will also allow you to pull the sleeve forward if it has a bit of power.

Ensure the double ended m7 screw is fully screwed into the mainshaft before fitting the new shaft, tighten it till fully home then back it off a dadge till the splines align and slide the sleeve back down and then ensure the cclip is really really back in it's groove. The cclip is a replace every time thing best practice as it can get deformed easily, especially as access isn't great. The input shaft should wobble a dadge in the sleeve it is supported by the spigot bearing.

If you are careful/lucky the gasket can be reused with a clean and a smear of hylomar otherwise replace the gasket too.
The c clip N 012 419 1 and gasket 091 301 131 are still available from vw

Obvoiusly you will need to drain the box first and be prepared for spillage, practice on your spare box. If you stand it on it's end to work on it just be aware that you can unscrew the joining screw as you undo the two shafts and very occasionally it will come with the input shaft and then drop out into the box so have the magnet handy. And be aware there's a breather hole in front of box that will leak oil when you stand it on it's end.

enjoy

Mummy!!!!!!


Not doing that before Bashtie!!!! It sounds scary!!!


Will practice on the spare box (phew!) but will make sure that the old shaft is as smooth as we can get it with some 800 wet and dry, and a small amount of grease. Got CV grease...is that ok??

will order the circlip and gasket. Don't like the use of the word "lucky" coz I certainly haven't been that with this job!!!

Aidan,

thanks again!!

Mods....this lot needs to be wiki'd!!

Em
x

Keep at it Em, you're doing great and I'm learning a lot.