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New pistons / running in

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 07:40
by Krisis
Hi All

Just about to fit 4 new pistons in or REALLY FAST & POWERFUL 1.6 n/a diesel :lol: :lol: :lol:

The question
How far do you have to run them in for :?
Maximum revs is/are what :?

Please help as there are more duff engines out there than good, finding that out at my cost :cry:

At least I dont have to take the block out to do it :roll:

And when I get time I can still build up another engine complete with a spare head :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TTFN Kris

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 07:48
by Titus A Duxass
I do not know what limits to use for running in.

But the main thing is not to labour the engine or keep the revs at the same point i.e. no droning down the m'way at 60 for miles on end.

For m'bikes I used limit the revs to 50% for the first hundred then increase the revs in 5% steps until a max limit is reach. The 5% steps can be ignored for short spurts downhill (no load on the engine).

My engine builder used to say "drive it/ride it like the throttle cable is down to a single strand"

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 08:39
by Krisis
Mr Titus,
I think that I may be scuppered as I live on the edge of the dales = hills :shock:
Looks like it will be a tank of gas and go for a looooooong drive 8)

I have a non standard box DU which means at 4000rpm on the flat I am doing 60mph.

Its geared is more for top end with it being a petrol box which means its crap on hills as its a diesel engine pushing it.

Yeah long drive again, back to Skeggy again this time slower :)

Must admit that it would be nice to now the running in for a VW diesel van

TTFN Kris

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 09:32
by Ian Hulley
Not sure of the relevance here but the instructions to us running in a petrol DJ was 500 miles at less than 3,000rpm and less than 50mph. Again no droning along at constant revs and no labouring the engine. No gas !! :cry: Then gradually up the ante a bit and we could run on gas ! Hurrah !

It'll soon pass :wink:

Ian.

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 09:32
by camper
Provided the new pistons tolerances and its piston rings are matched for the bore size & wear.Then refited to homed bores to remove the glaze it should be driven steady which means not labouring the engine racing or to many high revs.Its a question then of mileage to bed the rings into the bores proberly 1000 miles.There are several schools of thought about running engines in to get a good result.When i have run a engine in i dont use high qaulity engine oil in its first 1000 miles .

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 10:06
by Red Westie
As Camper points out... it is never a particularly good idea to put new pistons and rings to worn pollished bores, so you need to be sure that when fitted these new parts are within manufacturers tollerances and that the bores have been properly glaze busted otherwise the rings just won't bed in whatever the mileage.
1,000miles is the norm.
Martin

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 10:16
by HarryMann
My engine builder used to say "drive it/ride it like the throttle cable is down to a single strand"

He was wrong then...

It'll never run like that and probably glaze the bores... you need pressure and increasing heat, till it will stand full heat after say 1,000 to 1500 miles or so.

As said above correctly, if the bores have been properly cross-hatch honed, and the pistons and rings are correctly sized (check the ring gaps as per works manual down the bores at various places, to give an idea of bore wear and profile) then all will be OK

You couldn't drive an NA Diesel on a whisper of throttle everywhere anyway.

Drive it normally, but gently to start with... but with these provisos:

Heat is a function of throttle position and time...

Heat it can stand needs to be gradually extended, not gently for 1000 miles and then everything

So, can use plenty of throttle for a few seconds initially to get moving, then back off... so it forces rings out so they actually bed in.

Extend the time at larger throttle openings over a period of 500 to 1000 miles, from a few seconds to start with to a minute, then to a couple of minutes etc

Don't cruise at a large throttle setting for long to start with, go up to 50 ior so then lift off and let it settle where it wants with your current level of throttle, say 1/4 or 1/2, or 3/4

Don't use full revs to start with, but quite early, you can for a few seconds if it wants to rev freely, then tens of seconds etc

To restrict heat up hills change down earlier and go up on a lower setting, in,lower gear more slowly

Don't be frightened of it, if you feel you're pushing it's capabilities, lift off and/or change down..

The things to be careful of early are not around town, but on the main road or M-way, try to avoid M-way for a few hundred miles, as this is a low powered engine and always will have to work hard... take the A road.

If into wind or on a climb on M-way, be very aware of the load (throttle position) and every now and again back off for a minute or two where possible and then get back up to speed gently, use downslopes to build up speed and then see if she's happy to hold it on the level...

But every now and again, use some throttle to accelerate briskly, and as time goes on for longer and longer... to start with zip up in 2nd and then 3rd and then take it easy in top... then after a few hundred start giving it a minute or two of good acceleration in top (if that's possible!)

Do not worry too much, just keep it spinning and don't labour it toomuch or for too long, keep changing down if worried, steady as you go, accelerate and then back into top - modulate the throttle, a minute at one setting, then a minute at another. Let it build up speed if it wants to... but don't hold foot on floor for very long till a few hundred miles...

Don't carry heavy loads if you can help it to start with.

Don't idle it for more than a minute or two very early on - drive it or turn it off!

Change oil at 2 or 3 hundred miles, then after another 500 and then after say 1000 and that should be it. Use good quality diesel mineral oil up to 1,000-~1500 miles. Change the filter every time you change the oil

Provided it's been honed and you don't 'drive like there was nly one strand of throttle cable left', it will soon be going quite well.

Remember, accelerate briskly in the lower gears but change up earlier than usual

Good luck, there should be few hard and fast rules, you have to drive along with the rest of the traffic, it's just hills and M-ways that are a challenge at the very early stages, so avoid where possible in such a low powererd and heavy vehicle. Make sure tyre pressures are corerct too, so it rolls along easily.

I ran a set of rings in nicely in one weekend, but it was a 1,000 mile weekend... it was going rather well after 500 miles!

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 10:21
by Krisis
Thanks guys,

The pistons in the engine are ok but either one or more of the oil seal rings has gone.

Therefore at low revs the engine smokes more than I do :lol: besides that it runs fine, for a CS. :lol:

I have these brand spanking new pistons, for a CS, complete with rings and seals and thought that I may as well use them.

Good idea or bad

Kris (konfused as normal)

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 10:32
by HarryMann
Good if you chack they are the correct sizing, and you have tried a few rings to check the gaps...

From Bentley (Section 13.29)

https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Di ... _ring_gaps

Posted: 30 Oct 2008, 13:33
by Red Westie
And the smoke you describe is definately oil smoke (blue tinge) and not a diesel fueling problem ie; injector dribble etc.
I'm not entirly in agreement with HarryMann and his multiple oil changes, general consensous is two oil changes, one when you do the job and another after approx 1,000 miles, afterall you want these rings to bed in so a cheap diesel capable oil at first then a quality dedicated diesel at around 1,000miles (with a new oil filter)
I also wouldn't get too bogged down with the running in regime, drive as normal....just avoid over reving and overloading (large amounts of throttle in high gear) first 100miles is important.
Martin