Club 80-90 Forums

I'm gradually finding myself having to make a tricky decision. Do I do up my 1.6Td Atlantic or just replace parts as the need replacing? How long is a piece of string? But what have/would you do?

Rust.
I've had it about 6 months and there's a little rust (only to be expected as we live by the sea/it's a VW/other excuse here) which I can deal with myself. I'm going to waxoyl the thing too.
Lectrics
The alternator has made a few smells recently though that seems to have stopped after I re-tightened the fan belt. Maybe replace with a higher rated one? Pro's n Cons?
Paint.
The High Top roof (which I haven't seen that many examples of) has had a flakey lacquer/ psoriasis thing spreading over it since the day I bought it and it's now covered the entire top of the roof and part of the way down the sides too. Respray Calypso Green and lacquer or maybe total respray in another colour of my liking? Tough one as I like to use it and don't want to get too prescious about it. I even thought there might be some kind of rough finish I could give it to protect it against scratchy brambles and bushes when we're in the woods. What's around folks? Wood panelling?
Lowering.
So what about lowering the thing a little? It dips and bounces like a dinghy and flinches in gusty winds. It needs to be stiffer and a little lower though I know little about such things. Is one kit better than any other or are we talking off the shelf springs and shocks.?
Doing the engine a favour.
Anything I could do to look after it, i'll do...within reason. I'm not talking Porsche refit here, i'm talking good quality oils,filters,servicing etc. Any little tips that could help me to help (nameless) my van run any smoother. More power would be good though I realise that's probably an inherent thing. It cruises at 50-60mph.(80Km/h).
I bought one of those gear-shift shorteners and the instructions say I can fit it from inside and above but as it turns out, i'll have to raise it on ramps/higher and drop the front box-stick-mounting out from underneath totally, bolt the thing on and offer it back up in it's entirety before I know what it'll be like. Anyone in Brighton got one I can take a look at?
Other.
Anything you fancy telling me about, i'll listen to.

Thanks,

Hypnovan.

rust deal with it asap even if it makes the van look like a rat its better than letting it fester.

lowering will improve things if done right, dont go to low.

personally i love the colour but some may not. if you plan to use the van a lot i`d avoid a full respray as it`ll just mark up and you`ll be gutted.

my syncro is a little rough around the edges but i can climb all over it to load it up and i dont get worried about marking it.

with all my older vehicles i budget on spending £500 to £1000 a year on maintainance. i new car will cost you much more than that in just depreiciation.

Roof may be osmosis (often found on fibreglass hulls) or could be UV damage. Gel coat is probably disintegrating and needs treating/replacing.

thanks for the reply guys.

i'm with you re the paintwork and rust. I've just bought a Dremel and ground off the rusty bits and treated the rust and painted over it with some blue Hammerite. Like you, i'm not into shiny paint though it still looks lovely enough to take very good care of.

Suspension: I want less bounce and same height as I need the ground clearance. -40mm seems to be the best solution.

Next job is coolant, then new brake pads.

Suspension:
I want less bounce and same height as I need the ground clearance.
-40mm seems to be the best solution.

Aren't those two statements contradictive?

Drop the front about 10mm if you want slightly better resistance to cross-winds and 'les grand camions' together with 'better turn-in'. Check and re-set the caster afterwards.

Establish the correct tyre pressures for the tyres and weight, and set them accurately and regularly (first thing, when cold)

Check the anti-roll bar mounting rubbers and the arb drop arm bushes and sleeves don't need replacing.

Check the top pigtails on the rear springs haven't broken.


Engine: Install an oil temp gauge and ease off when it gets to 120C (250F)

Use a fully synth diesel oil like FUCHS Titan Syn Diesel (GSF)

Keep an eye on the air filter element and change annually (£12 from GSF). Clean out the filter's cyclone chamber cap at the same time.

Fit a charge-cooler if you want to spend some money and then slightly increase the fuelling for hill-climbing ability.

Body
Buy a can of spray Dinitrol and spary into any cavity you uncover where it looks even slighty rusty e.g. the rear tail-light boxes. Vacuum out the sills and ditto spray fwd (above front jacking points) and rear (above rear jacking points), as well as down into ditto front sections from the B-pillar vents.

Stiff brush or soft wire brush (stainless wire-brush is good, Frosts)- brush out all 4 wheel arches annually, everywhere you can't see easily brush, behind rear suspension towers, etc. Paint or spray Dinitrol, esp. rear inner arch seams and right up a round front seat belt mounts inside arch. The main chassis longerons won't rust , so worry about everything else... Rear cross-member maybe, its more important to remove crud regularly than keep spraying Waxoyl over top of wet mush that you can't see... if it can't ever dry out, then ? Yes, going to stay wet... even through the summer

Thanks for the tips Harry.

I'd like to check out what effect different suspension configurations have before buying into it.

It's not an urgent job so i'm just canvassing opinions/taking advice, so thanks for yours.

Several people have mentioned -40mm and -50mm and at first this seemed reasonable (to me 40mm isn't that big a difference) but after realising that I spend some of the time off road on bumpy,muddy tracks and fields, that clearance is an issue. A 4x4 is becoming increasingly tempting though we have now grown attached to our Atlantic following a rocky start. I just read someone's blog and they only changed their dampers and bought huge rims with low profile tyres.

-10mm and harder dampers. Could I achieve the same result from changing my tyres to a lower profile (so as to achieve the 'drop') and harder dampers or is that not how it works?

Tomorrow, full frontal attack on seam behind front bumper and finding a spray paint to match 18yr old Calypso Green.

Many thanks,

HV

Read up on it from a good source, there's a fair bit of twaddle arond...

Differentiate stiffer springs from stiffer dampers.. once the wheel mass for a given spring stiffness is being controlled adequately in bump and rebound, there's no point in increasing those rates much if at all, in fact increase bump damping and you start to lose grip (understeer if front, oversteer if rear)...
Std. T25 shockers seem pretty well specced, so unless significant changes to wheel/tyre mass or stiffer springs fitted, little point, other than maybe greater retention of damping characteristics as they get worked hard and get hot... mainly an off-road situation.
Additionally as soon as you're on a rough road (e.g. pitted B road) roadholding can get worse, not better with stiffer shocks.

What can be an improvement is the change in bump to rebound characteristics.
Stiffer springs will augment anti-roll and pitch reduction, at the expense of bump and harshness transmission into the body e.g. scuttle shake.
If much heavier wheels and tyres are fitted, then a correspindingly stiffer spring might be required.
It's finding the right combination of spring and damper if they are required.
Main thing is not to go too far... Lowering the nose cf. rear can help turn-in and reduce wind effects, even reduce drag a bit. 10 ~20mm?
I recently raised the back of my Syncro Doka a bit (20mm) and noticed a bit more directional stability and turn-in, just noticeable I'd say.

Unless a lot of good R&D has been done on a particular combination for a particular van type, it's all a bit of a guessing game and you won't find everyone being particularly forthcoming about any downsides when they've spent a fair wedge... to be fair some won't be noticing them as any change might seem to be +ve; it takes a large mileage to really weigh up and find exactly what the change has done across the board, under all conditions.

Remember also often changes are not from new to new, but from old to new!

Some examples:
+ve A heavy Syncro camper often running well-loaded: Syncro.org springs (stiffer) with corresponding HD Syncro shockers can improve the ride, pitch and roll to a degree that it's worthwhile. Well designed springs aimed at a very particular vehicle and configuration.
-ve Over-raising a vehicle to garner maximum ground clearance... with the best setup, driveable, but will almost always compromise cornering. particularly with enormous wheels that put loads into body and shockers that are hard to handle...
-ve Over-lowering and over stiffening... crash bang wallop, fine on glass smooth tracks, even then maybe not well balanced for controlled understeer at departure, but overall not suitable for bumpier surfaces.

Often the best initial step is to check all the wear points in suspension meticulously, and check the geometry settings accurately back and front.
Fit a spoiler for long distances if it hasn't got one, but be prepared to remove it or sacrifice it off-road

Wow! that was, by far, the most comprehensive and interesting article I have ever read about suspension and it's the sort of tech spec i'm after too. Great job Harry, well aimed, thanks!

Most of the time, I will be motoring on yer average UK roads at a just below national speed limits, just like anyone else would, though I do want to be able to easily negotiate well used woodland tracks (not expecting Syncro performance) and the occasional lumpy camping field if the need arises. It's mainly about reducing the nose diving when braking and not wallowing about from side to side as much when cornering.

We're chatting about a trip to Wales fairly soon so if I could get it sorted before then, i'll be able to properly 'test' the difference.

My van came with 'Winter tyres' which have a reasonable balance of deep tread and hardness for those times when i've taken us down a track and they seem to be fine for everyday road use too. Again, I don't know if they're technically suitable for everyday use though they haven't given any trouble yet and have plenty of tread left. I'm happy to stay on steel rims and narrow tyres if that is what will serve me best technically. Just because it has worked so far, doesn't necessarily mean it's technically what's best and i'm prepared to change it.

For example, I haven't come across any -10mm springs yet, so is that a matter of having the ones I have cut down or is that a definite no-no?

Again, many thanks for your 09:45 missal Harry, it's good food for thought. Can you recommend a decent book or website on the subject so you don't become the target for my lengthy thought processes or are you okay with filling my brain with such things?

All the best,

HV

PS: Front bumper has been put on wrongly and a bolt has been cross threaded so no de-rusting today. Instead, it's off to Pfeiffer's for coolant.

PPS: And i'll have all the rubber bushes changed while the job's being done. Do they come as a kit for T25's? Might as well do it while I can or it's going to be yet another job to do sometime.

See Brickwerks shop for decent poly bush kits for sorting out some of the issues. Steering rack poly bushes are a worthwhile mod, everyone who does `em has praise for the improved feel of the steering, reduces wandering.

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?p ... t&Itemid=6

30mm drop on standard VW Multivan / Bluestar etc springs is as much as you want to go in my opinion, they come up now and again S/H. Heavier duty / gas shocks while you`re there. Larger diameter alloy wheels with lower profile tyres will take a lot of the roll out of it. I went with 16" rims so I`ve still got a healthy 55% sidewall profile and not ruined the ride quality.

In ur situation I'd go for jus a set of Multivan springs up front, they arent too hard to get hold of plus they are Vw rated. But I would upgrade the shocks. AVO ones are gas adjustable so you can set em to the stiffness/softness/comfort you want. Body wise i'd aim to keep any Westy in as good a condition as possible (fun, usage n money prevailing of course!) as I've been into T3's since 2001 and have seen the prices just keep creepin up up up and yours is a rarer colour...

Yeah it's a good colour alrighty. It could use a good freshening up all over....esp the roof.

When we bought it 6 months ago, the lacquer was already peeling and now it looks really crap by my standards so..... I've been thinking about having it painted/painting it white. Do the 25's with white hightops only have lacquer over the plastic or are they painted white?

I've been reading a thread by someone who has just painted their van with a roller. I'd be happy to do that to the roof if I could guarantee that the paint would stay on. I know it's all in the prep. so the first job would be to remove what's already there, flatten it off and then roller it. Can't do any of that on the roadside. Grrrrrr.

HV