Club 80-90 Forums

I've just cut n pasted this from the DOT...and it's doing my effing bonce in. I know it a bit long winded but I'm certain someone can simplify it so my dim brain can take it all in? I only got cse's in maths & english

Can someone please clarify how much weight I can tow with a 5 speed 1900 DG and do I need a braking system?

I might have to tow a small cabin cruiser weighting around 700kg and the trailer would weight about 100kg too......


Weight
In the case of light trailers, that is less than 3500kg maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer.

For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.

The maximum laden weight of a trailer which may be towed by a light goods vehicle depends on both the stated gross train weight of the towing vehicle (GTW) and the vehicle manufacturer's recommended maximum permissible trailer weight. Neither the maximum permissible trailer weight or the maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle) should be exceeded. It is possible that the stated gross train weight is less than the sum of the stated maximum permissible laden weight of the towing vehicle and the stated maximum permissible laden trailer weight. In this case the towing vehicle and the trailer must be loaded such that each does not exceed its individual maximum limit and the sum of both does not exceed the maximum gross train weight.

It is not a requirement to display a notice of the unladen weight of the trailer or the towing vehicle, unless the towing vehicle is either a motor tractor or a locomotive, as defined in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.

Dimensions
If the towing vehicle has a permissible gross weight in excess of 3.5 tonnes the maximum width and length of the trailer are 2.55 metres and 12 metres respectively. If however the gross weight of the towing vehicle is 3.5 tonnes or less then the maximum permissible width and length are 2.3 metres and 7 metres respectively. In both cases the overall length of the towing vehicle and trailer must not exceed either 18m or 18.75m depending on the type of towing vehicle.

Brakes
Braking requirements are prescribed in Regulations 15 and 16 of The Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986 as amended and essentially require a trailer with a maximum design laden weight of more 750 kg to be braked and allow an inertia (overrun) type braking system to be used up to a maximum permissible laden weight of 3500kg. In use it is not permitted to use an unbraked trailer the laden weight of which exceeds 50% of the kerbside weight of the towing vehicle. For trailers up to 1500kg laden weight it is permitted to use a secondary coupling, which in the event of separation (NOT failure) of the main coupling will retain the trailer attached to the towing vehicle, prevent the nose of the trailer from touching the ground and provide some residual steering of the trailer. Above 1500 kg laden weight the trailer must be fitted with a device to stop the trailer automatically in the event of separation (NOT failure) of the main coupling and this is normally achieved by a breakaway cable attached to the parking brake mechanism - the trailer becomes detached from the towing vehicle.

Many many thanks

The maximum recommended towing weight is 80% of the kerbside weight of the towing vehicle. The only thing that concerns you if you loaded trailer weight is 800Kg is the bit on brakes. If the loaded weight of the trailer is over 750Kg it must be fitted with over run brakes. it must also be fitted with a safety chain arranged so that if the coupling should fail the tow hitch will not hit the ground. If the trailer is over 1500kg it must be fitted with a breakaway cable that operates the parking brake. Hope this helps.
Sid

Mucho gracias Elsid My uncle had a yacht named the same

Now why couldn't the DOT just've written that!!

So in theory I could tow the above but need a trailer with over run brakes.

I've seen this for sale on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0279878310

but am concerned it's not to DOT standards as no mention of brakes etc

What's your views?

Stu - the first line reads...


twin axled braked trailer.

so think it may have brakes.....but e-mail the seller and ask!


Em
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For most T25.. IIRC
max unbraked trailer = 750kg
Max braked trailer = 1500kgs

Syncro's are supposed to be able to tow 2000kg (special permit I suspect only in Germany.. 2500kgs)

But in reality the law is open to some interpretation as a 2 ton Disco can pull a 3.5 ton trailer.. and as you never see them with a fully loaded disco (to get the GVW up) and i have never seen one pulled over to check it.. I think if it "looks" ok it will be..

There was a Peugeot 307 at VF with a splitty on a trailer..... now that MUST have been overloaded..
"modern" cars tend to have less GTW than older cars for some reason too..

In france you can onlt tow a 500kg gross trailer before it needs registration and MOT.. but there are twin axle trailers available but can only carry 250kgs... now why would anyone want a twin axle to carry that... !!! prob coz that 250 kgs suddenly weighs 4 times as much.....

toomanytoys wrote:For most T25.. IIRC
max unbraked trailer = 750kg
Max braked trailer = 1500kgs

Syncro's are supposed to be able to tow 2000kg (special permit I suspect only in Germany.. 2500kgs)

But in reality the law is open to some interpretation as a 2 ton Disco can pull a 3.5 ton trailer.. and as you never see them with a fully loaded disco (to get the GVW up) and i have never seen one pulled over to check it.. I think if it "looks" ok it will be..

There was a Peugeot 307 at VF with a splitty on a trailer..... now that MUST have been overloaded..
"modern" cars tend to have less GTW than older cars for some reason too..

Its not open to interpritation at all. A Disco Clearly states on its build plate that it can pull 3500kg - thats what your legaly aloud to pull with it. Land rover calculate their gross train weights just by adding this limit to the vehicles max weight so you can always pull the max limit regardless of how loaded the vehicle is, some other makers don't though so a loaded vehicle can tow less to be within its gross train weight. All the stuff about 80% of the weight of the towing vehicle is just a recomendation. The law is not to exceed the plate on the vehicle. A land Rover defender is actully plated to pull 4tonnes but to go over 3.5tonnes you need powered trailer brakes (not overrun) and a tow jaw not 50mm ball so its very rarely done.

Resion 4x4s do so well on towing and can usally tow more than their weight is because the figures are calc on what weight it can pull away with on a 12% grad. Extra grip and lower gears usally means proper 4x4s come out on top. Its always been a big plus for landys, almost a trademark, alot of the hiluxs and other rivals aren't plated to pull what a landy can. Syncros can pull more for exactly the same resion - just low gears and more grip. Modern super heavy FWD cars it works the other way for, they are useless (people think they are fine though because they have an overpowered diesel engine)! Some people seem to think though because a landy can pull a massive trailer its safe to speed with one thats "only" 2 tonnes - WRONG, thats why they get crashed!

and the reason for tandam axle trailers is to confirm with the nose weight and axel regulations not gross weight..... tandem trailer only need to be braked on the front axle upto 2tonne MgW

Young Glen.. AH.. 80% is a recomendation... ok... missed that bit..

Mr M if the "tandem axle" thing (in France) is that simple... why do the 500kg gross twin axle trailers have no brakes...

I think if anyone that was loading a 6 foot long trailer with 250kgs and couldnt load it correctly for the correct nose weight... shouldnt be alowed out......

not sure about french rules, but thats the uk ones , or was......

body size is irrelvant its the axle weights and nose weights that make the reasoning

maybe so.. but I just cant see that being a valid reason for a 2 axle 500kg trailer.. if it was much bigger than 6 foot it wouldnt be able to carry anything... they usually have 850+ kg axles on them too.... even stated in the adverts...

i won't start quoting irrelevant swiss regulations since nobody ever comes here anyway.

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My understanding is that the Gross Train Weight or GTW is the maximum permitted or total combined weight of towing vehicle and trailer. This is effectively the total weight that the towing vehicle is capable of moving, (setting off, pulling along and stopping.) Which is why Land Rovers fair well due to their gearing and traction.
For example if the GTW for a T25 is listed at 3900kg, this equates to the Gross vehicle weight (GVW) of 2400kg for a fully loaded T25 + 1500kg for a trailer, which is probably where the 1500kg figure often quoted comes from.
So whilst it may be possible for an un laden T25 of about 1400kg to move a 2500kg trailer within its GTW, because 1400+2500=3900, it is not necessarily safe and could be considered dangerous. This is why there is an 80% guidance. It is not law but a safety recomendation advising that the trailer should not weigh more than 80% of the the actual weight of the towing vehicle. So it may not be considered safe to tow a 1500kg trailer with an empty van.
The purpose of the advice is to prevent the dangerous "tail wagging the dog" scenario, where an over heavy trailer will "boss" the towing vehicle about. This can start with a slight trailer weave then quickly turn into disaster! Particularly in crosswinds, under braking or travelling down hill.

Sorry and to answer the first question.....
Yes you can safely tow 800kg of boat and trailer with your T25. But the trailer will need its own over run brake as the boat and trailer combined exceed 750kg.

Many thanks to all for the answers...

Em Doh! I just plain missed that bit!
With clown's like me no wonder Lehman Brothers it's in the sh!te....

So how does a braked trailer work anyway? And will my 1900DG pull a 20' craft weighing 800kgs on a trailer weighing around 125kgs?

Oorwullie Is Switzerland really that exciting?

CycloneMike thanks for clarifying that one so my weak brain can understand

Could be all hypothetical now! lIt's was my intention to purchase a small cabin cruiser with trailer. Then tow with VW camper to certain spots of beauty in the UK and cruise the canals or waterways. But looks very much like I'll be unemployed by weekend.

So that's another pipedream down the swanny.


Big issue? Get yer Big Issue here! Hot of the press! . Just practising for my new job

Many thanks to all for the answers...

Em Doh! I just plain missed that bit!
With clown's like me no wonder Lehman Brothers it's in the sh!te....

So how does a braked trailer work anyway? And will my 1900DG pull a 20' craft weighing 800kgs on a trailer weighing around 125kgs?

Oorwullie Is Switzerland really that exciting?

CycloneMike thanks for clarifying that one so my weak brain can understand

Could be all hypothetical now! lIt's was my intention to purchase a small cabin cruiser with trailer. Then tow with VW camper to certain spots of beauty in the UK and cruise the canals or waterways. But looks very much like I'll be unemployed by weekend.

So that's another pipedream down the swanny.


Big issue? Get yer Big Issue here! Hot of the press! . Just practising for my new job