Club 80-90 Forums

Had a great today driving a Defender with the Land Rover Owners Club in Bathgate today. I went with a mate of mine because my Syncro is still undergoing an engine transplant. Had a ball. Learnt a bit as well.

Here's a question or two.
1. When off road in the Syncro I have used the G gear almost exclusively but today in the Defender I used Low range and 2nd gear more than 1st. This enabled me to move a little quicker than first and surprisingly provided a little more grip going up hill. Question is do I leave the Syncro or use 1st and 2nd a little more. I am guessing the answer is just use G as 1st and 2nd won't be low enough as they are effectively in the High range when comparing to the more common transfer case based 4wd system.

2. I was taught 2 techniques today for situations when stalling going up hill and when you loose traction going up a hill. They are;
a) Stalling - apply both clutch and brake then put it in reverse. Engage the starter briefly whilst releasing the brake. The engine fires and engine braking allows a controlled descent backward.
b) Loss of traction - apply both clutch and brake put the vehicle in reverse quickly then release both brake and clutch. Engine braking again allows a controlled descent backwards.
Question is - Is this how you do it in the Syncro? Can't see a reason why not but I'm sure that someone will tell me if I am.

a
1. practice makes perfect trial and learning....your vehicle/engine/terrain etc..
2. yes,yes and don't be tempted to bump start it in R unless it really won't start on the starter and it's going backwards uncontrollably as you can put the reverse idler gear out of the bottom of the box.

quite often, a really steep long climb is better attempted in first due to momentum. Its all about momentum and using the power characteristics of your engine.

slobbo wrote: I went with a mate of mine because my Syncro is still undergoing an engine transplant.

Still undergoing??? Its your choice of pump holding it all up! The transplant takes no time at all.

Just discovered a nice "bing" nearby so will have to give it a go when I get the van back. Guess I've still got a bit to learn.

What bing? Your not aloud on any in west lothian!

Wasn't a slight Andy. I know it isn't you guys holding it up. Didn't mean it to sound that way if it did.

This one. Near me


Map

I thought you ment near Bathgate!

This link works better. Change to Aerial view though and zoom out a wee bit.


http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.tbhc ... &encType=1

1st is also occasionally better down really steep and slippy mud slopes - as 'G' so low acts a brake-lock, thus removing steering...

Did they demonstrate just giving it a whiff of gas down very steep slippy slopes, to bring the steering and control back when all seems lost? - well worth trying that (practice when plenty of runoff area at bottom)...

As Pete says, 1st is often a required gear for steep short difficult climbs that need momentum

Good to be shown proper 'failed ascent' procedure - we seem to fall down on that one and should demonstrate it.
Whatever, don't leave clucth out and then let it in when rolling backwards fast (or forwards), not only Gbox, but can spin engine that fast everything will explode!

HarryMann wrote: Whatever, don't leave clucth out and then let it in when rolling backwards fast (or forwards), not only Gbox, but can spin engine that fast everything will explode!

I was going to post this good bit of advice.

Was doing a bit of driver training in a Disco last year and despite explaining how to negotiate a failed hillclimb and then demonstrating and then explaining again, the muppet I was teaching ignored everything I said and dumped the clutch at about 15miles an hour in reverse and blew the rear diff

Was at a series 1 landy rally last weekend and there was an offroad course to have some fun on. Always amases me how few people bother to do failed hillclimbs - always chooseing instead to roll back down with the clutch in and then lock all wheels and tabogen to a stop somewhere randomly. Worse than that as demonstrated by afew others (usally the more confident ones who at first looked like they knew what they were doing) is try and pull away forwards again, can make the vehicle yaw round a bit so its no longer lined up with the excape of reverseing or just break a driveshaft, eather of which really renders you in trouble. Combineing this with then rolling back down the hill can end in tears as one guy found out when it rolled back into a tree and demolished the rear tub. Luckally it was a scruffy motor so he just bashed it out with a sledge hammer (again I suspect) - not to many vehicles you can do that to and why in my mind a good scruffy old landy is an excelent off road wepon that takes some beating in more ways than one (if the driver knows how to drive it, thats usally the main ingrident in any offroad car).

The other main rule to bare in mind is don't change gear when negoceating something, be smooth and confident even if it gets a bit tight. you might have the revs/speed alright when you go in but if you get bogged down in too higher gear or run out of speed in too lower gear you can get stuck. This is one thing a syncro isn't great at as it lacks a nice choice of close ratio gears so you sometimes have to choose between reving a bit much in G or going a bit quicker than optimum in 1st, though the suspension copes pritty well. G probubly is a resionable match for a landys 1st gear but 1st is more like 3rd or 4th and given the fact mines a JX it lacks the low end grunt the landy has makeing it harder to drive in my opinion, though being a turbo engine it pulls much stronger than the landy when its in the zone. Of course though that at first sounds a little harsh on the sycro it deserves infinate prase for having a G gear as without that it would be complete rubish, like the land rover freelander and other soft roaders for example - if it aint a wet field look elseware, and even then you'll be wanting an auto if you want to get it moving.

Personly when I do failed hill starts I get it into reverse as quick as possable, usally timeing it with the vehicle comming to a halt so it moves smoothly into going the other way and you don't have to worry about if the brakes will be able to hold it, also it tends to engage reverse more reliably as you want to make dam sure it has! - you can usally tell if its not going to make it so plan what to do as its still going up. If the engine has actully stalled I tend to engage reverse when its still stopped so it ends up sitting in reverse gear on the hill and you know its in. As gravity is helping it you barely have to flick the starter motor to get it going so it doesn't really put much strain on it, if its low compression it might even restart as you let the brakes off (done that in my dads landy on a really steep hill once as it has a low compression petrol engine thats a bit lower compression than it once was (CR 6.7:1) - momentum starts it, the starter just gets it off that first compression that was holding it.

Personly when I do failed hill starts I get it into reverse as quick as possable, usally timeing it with the vehicle comming to a halt so it moves smoothly into going the other way and you don't have to worry about if the brakes will be able to hold it, also it tends to engage reverse more reliably as you want to make dam sure it has! -

Right, can be a bit difficult sometimes but getting it into Reverse asap is a very good idea, Syncro handbrake hardly likely to hold on steep slope, just remember to get that foot off the clutch when starting to go back.. and even as said, a whiff off throttle brings back a lot of the lost steering, even if it feels non-intuitive

And at all costs, drive the bliddy thing, don't let it drive you, and aim back down the way you came up as far as possible. Keep fingers out of that steering wheel too.

As they say in the cockpit with lights flashing, bells and alarms going off and no-one knows what's happening... First priority is > Fly The Flipping Plane! So easy to forget...

A disco rolled at Bures (not my favorite off roading center TBH) due to a failed emergency descent.

The driver just hit the brakes and slid down the hill. With no traction the vehicle just twisted and rolled.

Had he been DRIVING in reverse this wouldnt have happened.

However, all this happened really quickly and was down to poor (or none) training.
This is why at Nottingham Landrover club the first thing they do is watch you do (or teach you) a controlled failed descent. Absolutely essential IMHO and i'm really glad my first off roading event was with this club.

Also, another technique that gets forgotten (im guilty) is to always engage diff lock when doing a descent and using engine braking. Obviously this stops only one wheel doing the engine braking.

Anyway, this is old news to most of you guys - but quite useful for a beginner.....

Ringo