Club 80-90 Forums

Broke down today - buzzer came on, oil lamp flashing.. By the time I had pulled over to the left and stopped it had dumped all its oil out... May have been leaking for a little while given the oil covering the rear of the tailgate, but we were only 5 miles into the trip with no signs of issues before - and I had checked the oil before setting out.

So - recovered back home .. Had a bit of a look around and the underside of the engine was still dripping. There was a small pool of oil on top of the engine near the gearbox.. 

I re-filled it and started it up to see where it was coming from, and it's pouring out of the bottom at the flywheel housing end. And I mean pouring out  - litres  a minute I would say..  

Rear crank seal ? Not much experience with this particular engine type but I've never seen a failed crank seal cause that big a leak

Any other obvious candidates ?

Thanks

Chris
 1985 T3 2.1 Holdsworth pop-top...

Not wanting to worry you but I have seen some alarmingly corroded camshaft bore caps, It lives behind the flywheel and is only a bit of pressed steel about 1mm thick and VW didnt zinc plate them.
The one that came out of my first wbx rebuild perforated like a teabag when I wire brushed it.
If it has let go its a full rebuild job.

Interesting - thanks ... The vehicle did have a new Vega engine (short) fitted 5 years ago and has only done a few thousand miles since with annual servicing and heated dry storage etc. I would have thought that the cam bore cap would have been new then unlikely to corrode through by now ,,But I guess I won't know until I drop the engine out ...

 

I've seen main oil seals forced out by hydraulic pressure due to oil return passages blocked with excess sealant due to poor build quality. Also seen flywheel shims broken up and fragments jam in the oil passage, with the same result.

PS Last time I saw this was on a VEGE rebuild that had completed just 1500 miles. The cam cap wasn't new - neither were many other parts that would reasonably be expected to be replaced in a reconditioned engine.

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So - I took the engine out today and removed the flywheel and rear seal.

There was quite a bit of debris from a destroyed shim/washer or 2...

I assume that this was the cause of the massive oil leak... But - what caused this to happen?

See attached photos ..

The surfaces on the crankcase look a little rough/scored  and worse for wear, and all of the shims/washers are very pitted and scored - those that weren't destroyed !

I haven't measures the crank end-float yet but it doesn't look excessive..

Any thoughts on the cause, or if this is ok to rebuild/repair, or is the crabkcase damaged ?


Thanks

Chris

















 

Looks like it was overshimmed, ie no end float and no space for oil, or old damaged shims reused
Does any body know who does the 'vege' rebuilds, cos they aren't done by VEGE in Holland, I suspect JK and other sellers source from multiple sources

I think it's the VW engine company down south that do them, at least that's what I've heard from a chap that had a recon engine recently

The vw engine company. 

Stesaw wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 15:11 I think it's the VW engine company down south that do them, at least that's what I've heard from a chap that had a recon engine recently

nuff said

Many thanks to all for your advice and inputs..

I’m going to rebuild the engine..

Looking around the usual parts sites (JK, Heritage, brickworks etc) I can see most of the usual parts (bearings, gaskets, etc) but I can only seem to see the end float shims (selective shims) & rear seal for the crank, but not the other damaged parts above. The parts diagram I have (Haynes) shows ,, Thrust washer, Large shim, Selective shims, Retainer, and then seal.

Any pointers to a good supplier for these other required bits - or did I just overlook them in the JK etc. listings ?

Thanks

Chris

If the parts aren't listed in Brickwerks wbx pages, they dont have thwm or they are now NLA.

Some of us have an excess of loose bits from dead engines, thrust washers are a problem area.

I have a decent used thrust washer, big diameter 0.3mm and a couple of smaller thinner ones here, like a .26, .24. I also have a core engine still sat in Edna which I have taken the flywheel off (it went to Ian but was rejected as nfq) and the seal is still fitted so should be a full set in there including the weird retaining washer, all good afaik

Shims are NLA, just the larger one available now (0.4mm). The weird retainer thing isn't required as it doesn't serve any useful purpose. Aidan's offer is very kind, I suggest you accept! (Although the shims may not be correct thicknesses for your engine).
Make sure the oil return ways are clear from the shim housing, use a bit of wire to poke through, or pipe cleaners. Any fragments of shim lodged in there could cause a repeat of the failure.
Check for damage on the thrust face of the flywheel.

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Again thanks for all the inputs.

I PM'd Aidan as soon as he posted

Chris
 

If your flywheel is otherwise serviceable (not fried with cracks in clutch contact face) it will need the thrust face and crank mounting face lightly refacing after running against those shredded shims.
The step dimension is 8.0mm exactly and they must be machined as one. Its a lunchtime job for an experienced lathe operator, you will have to wangle the three spring dowels out beforehand (squeeze with molegrips or in a vise)