Club 80-90 Forums

Hi folks,

I just want to to start this thread by saying thanks to the many of ye who helped me sort out the front bearings, discs, ball joints and track rod issues I had over the last few weeks, particularly Robsey, Maxstu,Multistu and Mioba. I just put it all back together there and must bleed the brake system during the week.

My next potential danger zone is the rear brakes. I failed the CVRT test because the rear right wheel was stiff to turn. Sure enough, jacked up the van, took off the wheel, handbrake off and van in neutral and it was nearly impossible to turn the wheel. Few belts of the hammer to remove the drum and hey presto the wheel is turning easy now. I will put up videos when I get reception so ye can see. The pads aren't unevenly worn but there was a lot of brake dust in the drum when I took it out. The drum on the inside feels and looks smooth and there is no corrosion there. So my questions are....

1. Can I use brake cleaner on the actual brake pads?
2. Is the noise you can hear when I am turning the wheel normal? Or would that be an issue with the bearings?
3[. Can I wire brush the drum and paint it up with hammerite or is it worth getting a new one?
4. Anything else I should check while I am here?


img]https://i.imgur.com/OUWgxvz.jpg[/img]



[youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/duOEEyFrXsM?feature=share[/youtube]
[youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/6s4-ZNcjKYM?feature=share[/youtube]

Okey doke,
Lets work through a few of your questions in a different order.

1 - Can you re-use the same drums or replace.
This depends upon the internal diameter of the drum where the shoes have rubbed. - ignore the lip measurement where the shoes have not rubbed.

If they measure close to (or bigger than) 253.5mm diameter, then they should be replaced with new drums.

If they are around 252mm, then they can be reused.
You should either file off, or get a machine-shop to turn off the wear lip around the edge of the drum.
It will make fitting and future removal of the drum easier.

This leads onto..

2 - Can I use brake cleaner spray on the shoes.
If you are fitting new drums, then you need to fit new shoes anyway.

If the shoe friction material is at least 2.5mm thick, then yes, you can use brake cleaner spray on the friction material.
If the material is less than 2.5mm thick, then it is recommended to fit new shoes.

3 - Noises from the drum.
I didn't have the noise on, but a general idea would be..
If it is a growling, rumbling or similar noise, then it is probably bearing related.
If it sounds like a scouring or low intermittent shushing noise, then it is probably just the shoes rubbing the drums.
Especially if the handbrake is adjusted up to allow just a few clicks of the ratchet pawl -
I find it easier to rotate with the wheel on, bigger circumference gives better leverage.

It also means the weight of the wheel gives more momentum for the drum to spin further before friction stops it.

I wonder if the brake cable or the toothed adjuster is too tight.
Release the cable completely and see if it still rubs as stiffly.

Cheers for taking the time to write that Robsey.

1. I will measure the internal diameter tomorrow.

2. The pads themselves are about 4mm thick, I did measure them earlier just when I wanted to compare the front and back pad thickness to ensure they were similar.

3. The noise doesnt sound like a grumbling or rumbling, it sounds exactly like a ratchet and pawl, where each spin of the wheel sounds like a pawl catching on each tooth of the ratchet. On a seperate note the handbrake itself has to be pulled to its max and even then, on a steep hill the van itself might very slowly start to move if not in gear....obviously something else to sort.

Ya I would also rotate the wheel like you said with the wheel on but there was literally no movement. It only started to really move freely after a few hammer love taps

What is that?

I actually don't know, I never even seen it. First point of Investigstion in the morning.

It looks like anti-seize paste (copper grease) on the tip of the shoe where it enters the cylinder.

Or is that just my old-fart eyesight.

Okay - as you have it in bits a few things to consider.

1 - wheel bearing buggered so that the wheel cannot turn.
I did think over tightened, but then realised that the nuts are tightened to a reduculously high torque anyway.

2 - are the springs fitted correctly - sounds daft, but it can happen easily.

3 - ratchet pawl rusted or twisted or over tightened.

4 - handbrake operating mechanism seized inside the drum.

5 - I can see that the brake shoe retainers are still fitted okay in the picture - but if they dislodge, the shoes can twist and jam.

Obvious thoughts then.

Strip everything back all the way to the back plate.
Strip, clean and check over every component.
Especially adjustable or moving parts.
Make sure that they are free to move.

With a trusty manual, or looking at a few good youtube videos, look at how they all go back together correctly.

Only lubricate contact surfaces with anti-seize paste / copper grease.

Thanks again so much.I was looking at the videos I took earlier and it does look a bit like paste but I will check it in the morning.
1. The wheel does turn (since it got a wack of the hammer) so fingers gers crossed its not a bearing issue.

2. Will check all springs tomorrow but I thibk they are.

3. It really sounds like a ratchet and pawl noise, it was the first image that came to my head when I heard it.

So tomorrow my jobs are to:
Check what that things is in the picture
Measure inner diameter of drum
Start a strip back to the back plate

It's not a CJ joint is it?

Sounds more like that than brake or bearing related - I could be wrong.

CV joint noise?
Should sound like crackling knuckles.

As said, I couldn't hear anything obvious.
I could hear you breathing, so assuming either exertion or exasperation. - lol

It would not cause excessive difficulty to turn the drum, unless it is in gear.
And I am sure that will not be the case.

But there will be some resistance due to movement of the drive-shaft and differential in the box.

Me breathing!!! Haha that's hilarious pure exasperation after going from a high of thinking what the fusge is restricting this wheel to oh its turning easy now for no reason . Funnily enough I have spare cv joints and cv joint bearings if I have to go down that path. Ya it's not in gear when I was turning it. Can you not hear the sound when I turn it at all? If not I will get another video tomorrow

Not quite in gear???

All I could hear was your breathing,
that bird that chirped very loud causing me to jump...
And a metallic creaking noise like the suspension flexing slightly rather than the wheel moving.

What about this one, Rob?

[youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/6s4-ZNcjKYM?feature=share[/youtube]


The bird chip was the first vid. The third one linked.
Is that knocking normal?
( No idea myself - never been in this situation. )

Smiffo wrote: ↑30 Apr 2023, 23:15 What about this one, Rob?

[youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/6s4-ZNcjKYM?feature=share[/youtube]


The bird chip was the first vid. The third one linked.
Is that knocking normal?
( No idea myself - never been in this situation. )

Ya this is the video where you can hear it. The shed is full of crows , I forget about them and then they will swoop past and give me a fright regularly.

tobydog wrote: ↑30 Apr 2023, 22:07 Not quite in gear???

It's in neutral at the moment, but yup maybe it's not quite there, again I will check that today as well.

Ah okay,

I had missed the other two links...

That does sound like the gears and the differential in the gearbox.
Mine sounds thè same when I turn either drive flange on its own..
So I think it is okay.
But then mine has been stood on a drive for 30 years.

I know it is a faff, but when you come to do the CV joints, spin the drum with the shaft disconnected.
I expect the noise will go away.

I believe that the noise from the differential is not related, and can be ignored.

----------------------------

Getting back to the stuck drum -
The outcome is, that maybe the brake shoe components and springs were seized due to cack build up and probably rusted up pivots etc.

Therefore the same recommendation as yesterday.
Strip, clean, lubricate (where necessary), and reassemble the brake shoe components.
Setting the ratchet mechanism and hand-brake adjustment accordingly.

Now that you are an expert on the rear brake assembly, it is worth doing the other side too.
Because if one side was seized, the other will not be that far behind.