Club 80-90 Forums

Whilst fitting a new (electric) fuel pump I found this lovely bit of hose between the filter and hard line:



I have a receipt for the replacement of this hose 9 months ago, and it does look pretty new. However, it’s R6 and therefore not suitable for modern fuels.

So, even if you think they are okay, it may be worth a quick check just in case!!

Cut it open and take a look at the lining ( the bit that actually carries the fuel ) I bet that that is intact - it only seems to be the outer layer that gets affected in this way.
I now use Gates Barricade R11 for my heaters as even the Webasto rubbers were being affected ( most probably old stock). It is expensive but is the best that I have been able to source.

Ive bought fuel injection rated fuel hose locally and it lasted 2 years, cracked all the way through and sprayed out petrol. Now will only shop at Brickwerks for the hose.

Oldiebut goodie wrote:Cut it open and take a look at the lining ( the bit that actually carries the fuel ) I bet that that is intact - it only seems to be the outer layer that gets affected in this way.
I now use Gates Barricade R11 for my heaters as even the Webasto rubbers were being affected ( most probably old stock). It is expensive but is the best that I have been able to source.

You are right, this wasn't dripping fuel, the inner was intact.

The cracking went to just below the reinforcement cord, I'd estimate the deepest crack was around 2/3rds of the way through. Most cracks were radial, although there were some longitudinal ones as well.

Still not keen to have it on the van!

Replaced with CODAN R9 we'll see how that gets on...

Use R11!

Oldiebut goodie wrote:Use R11!

I'm keen to understand more about this - why R11? From my basic understanding R11 has a higher permeation rate than R9, but I might have got that wrong?!

My understanding is that R9 is good for E5 fuel, but potentially more suspect at E10, but still passes the test.

Go to R14 then! ( I went through this to death with someone on here who couldn't read and understand the specification from Gates, search and it will be here somewhere).
You need to wade through the standard:
J30_199806
Section 7 covers Fuel Injection Hose Medium-Pressure Coupled and Uncoupled Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R9). Section 8 covers In-Tank, Low-Pressure, Uncoupled Fuel Hoses (SAE 30R10). Section 9 covers Unified Method for Fuel Hose Permeation. Section 10 covers Low Permeation Fuel Fill and Vent Hose (SAE 30R11). Section 11 covers Low Permeation Fuel Feed and Return Hose (SAE 30R12).es (SAE 30R10). Section 9 covers Unified Method for Fuel Hose Permeation. Section 10 covers Low Permeation Fuel Fill and Vent Hose (SAE 30R11). Section 11 covers Low Permeation Fuel Feed and Return Hose (SAE 30R12).

Barricade blurb:

BARRICADE® CARBURETION HOSE
Advanced fuel formulations require a fuel hose that's up to the task. Barricade® Carburetion hose provides a premium, low-permeation hose solution compatible for use with many fuel systems and fuel types. Barricade® Fuel Injection Hose are made with Gates' patented five-layer Greenshield® technology, providing exceptional performance and fuel efficiency. This environmentally-friendly hose solution provides five times less permeation than the nearest competitor.

Patented five-layer Greenshield® barrier technology.
High temperature range tolerance: -40°F to +257°F (-40°C to +125°C).
HNBR tube with thermoplastic barrier and CPE cover; reinforced aramid fiber.
Meets SAE 30R14 T1, CARB & EPA non-road fuel lines.
Multi-fuel compatibility.
PSI rating: 35-50.
Oil, heat, ozone, and abrasion-resistant cover.
Not for use on pressure lines of fuel injection or cooling system applications.

Installing Barricade protects the system against the aggressive fuel mixtures of today’s modern fuels, which can degrade
basic rubber hose and result in customer comebacks. Plus with Barricade, you can be assured that you are complying with
permeation laws, and providing your customers with the best hose available – all while being environmentally-friendly.
• BEST-IN-CLASS working psi of 225 (for fuel injection)
• Lowest permeation rate on the market 1 gr/m2/day
• Exceeds California Air Resources Board ( CARB) and EPA requirement
• Multi-fuel compatible: Approved for use with leaded and unleaded Gasoline, Diesel, Biodiesel†, E-85, 100% Methanol,
ETHANOL and gasohol fuels
• Performs 5x better for permeation than the nearest competitor

Brickwerks have a really good article on their blog that goes in to this issue in some detail which can be found here:

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/brickwerks ... ssurances/

To paraphrase, the R9 spec (SAE J30 R9) only defines the performance of fuel hoses with fuel that has up to 5% Ethanol or Biodiesel content (E5), and states that more than 5% "may result in significantly higher permeation rates", i.e. it leaks. Given that most of the fuel in this country is likely to have 10% Ethanol or Biodiesel content (E10), and the percentage is potentially higher in other countries, that is obviously a concern.

So you need to look for a hose that not only meets R9 spec generally, but which also exceeds it in respect of Ethanol or Biodiesel content. The hose that Brickwerks sell is R9 spec plus compatability with fuel that has up to 100% Ethanol or Biodiesel content, so I would suggest going with something like that.

ie Barricade!

Oldiebut goodie wrote:Go to R14 then! ( I went through this to death with someone on here who couldn't read and understand the specification from Gates, search and it will be here somewhere).

That previous thread was here, and I'm guessing the someone referred to is me.

If you get the Gates Barricade stuff that Oldiebut goodie recommends then you will be good to go as it specified up to 100% Ethanol or Biodiesel content.

However, you need to know that the Gates hose exceeds the minimum SAE 30R14 requirements, which still only describe the performance of a hose when used with fuel up to 5% Ethanol or Biodiesel, so take care if you're thinking of buying unbranded R14 hose online.

Don't take my word for it - just take a quick look at SAE J30 DEC2008 - the relevant section is 4.10 on Pg.8.

Well this is a fun topic.

I've read SAE J30, its thrilling. Can't wait for the film.

So in summary:

* R9 and R14 specs are only rated using a test fuel that simulates E5, not the E10 you'll probably be using.
* The big boys all make hoses rated at R9 etc, but their own spec often exceeds the minimum for that R rating, so may be suitable for E10
* Cheapo Chineese hose is being sold as R9 but may only be R6/R7 with new text on it

So really you need to refer to the datasheet for the hose rather than rely on the R rating to see what you are actually getting (assuming one is available) or find a supplier you trust to sell you the right stuff.

T25Convert wrote: So really you need to refer to the datasheet for the hose rather than rely on the R rating to see what you are actually getting (assuming one is available) or find a supplier you trust to sell you the right stuff.

The last bit is the key bit, as I have said elsewhere don't buy on spec, buy on reputation

T25Convert wrote:So in summary:

* R9 and R14 specs are only rated using a test fuel that simulates E5, not the E10 you'll probably be using.
* The big boys all make hoses rated at R9 etc, but their own spec often exceeds the minimum for that R rating, so may be suitable for E10
* Cheapo Chineese hose is being sold as R9 but may only be R6/R7 with new text on it

So really you need to refer to the datasheet for the hose rather than rely on the R rating to see what you are actually getting (assuming one is available) or find a supplier you trust to sell you the right stuff.

Precisely... and what I've said all along.

You need to check the exact hose specification - you cannot rely on an R9 or R14 rating alone as being a sufficient indicator of performance.

Just buy from Brickwerks then there is no need to worry about the spec.

Get the stuff marked FPM/ECO then you know its ethanol & biodiesel safe.
Yes its pricey, but then having your van go up in flames tends to be more costly and inconvenient...

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