Club 80-90 Forums

I appreciate this has probably been covered many times, although I haven't found a thread that specifically answers my concerns.

Long-story-short, I need an exhaust.
Before I worry myself about which ones, stainless or not, etc, etc, I know the studs can be a mare to remove.

I went to a local VW specialist today, popped my head in, and lost all confidence in him after 5 mins.
He gave me the usual routine of exhaust cost and £500+ labour at best..!!
Gave me the horror story of the van in the corner that "needed a new engine because the studs snapped off..."

When I mentioned surely just the heads, or drill them out, or perhaps he should look first, he replied that some come out easy though, so it isn't always bad...
This is even without lifting the van on a ramp yet to look...

This is one of the reasons I started trying to learn myself - fed up of the "ooooo well this is the achilles heel, or that is always expensive" routine.

I am edging toward doing this myself - I am thinking about the possible issues, and certainly don't want to end up snapping a stud off ( or bolt, some of them are bolts and not studs. )

So is this one of those jobs that really is that bad, or is it just one of those things that people don't try because it's scary thinking of getting it wrong?
I'm looking at it wondering how bad can it be? It's 8 studs/bolts.

Give me some input people - am I mad to think of it..!?
Bear in mind I do not have a welder to weld a nut on if it goes wrong, and have no experience recovering snapped bolts, but I sure would rather spend the labour costs on new bits..!!

I sprayed some Plusgas on the areas in question, and plan on doing that everyday while I make my mind up.
My logic is, even if a garage does it for me, at least they have a head start.

Tell me I am mad, or tell me I should try it.
Hit me

After soaking on penetrating oil ( toolstation do a low cost verson of plusgas) go around all the nuts with a socket, ring spanner or if they won't fit as last resort is an open ended spanner and see if they move, if they do then nip them back up, make a note and try the next.

If you feel springiness then stop, thats the metal in it's elastic phase, go too far and it will snap.

When you have tried them all you will have a good idea of the risks of the job.

Cheers itchy.

Keep spraying them over a few days, or a week, or is 24hrs before the job OK?

worst case your going to have to drill the broken studs out,sure most of us have had to do this in the past ,definitely not a new engine job.I,d find someone who can do it or have a go yourself.

fazzer wrote:worst case your going to have to drill the broken studs out,sure most of us have had to do this in the past ,definitely not a new engine job.I,d find someone who can do it or have a go yourself.

Yep that's what I thought.
As soon as he quoted the 'end of times' routine without even looking, I knew he wasn't getting my money.

Thing is I don't want to have to perform my first drill of a stud on this, as it's a bit hard to get to with a drill ( I imagine. )

Silly thing is, if he had looked and I felt he was being authentic, he would have had money money I suspect.

Anyway, now I'm pretty sure I'm going to at least have a go.
Pray for me hahahahah

Just to show what you could be up against - my Syncro has been more than a week at a specialist exhaust fitters, who know and work with these vehicles. Reason for the delay? They can't get all the exhaust studs out. These are guys who do this job day in, day out, yet they're stumped by one little stud. Believe me, they can be swines to deal with. I'm fairly certain that mine have been there since day one, and have never been touched, which might explain their reluctance to come out. So if yours have been shifted a couple of times in their life, they might move a bit easier. If not, then be prepared for a difficult job.

looks like you have an early exhaust on a late van.

I use heat, lots of it.. on the nut, and a hex socket, it'll go with a little 'click' or it'll go easy.
ring spanner on the fiddly ones (which tend to be looser)
New steel studs from brickwerks in loose.
Stainless nuts.

changed a few of the studs for stainless bolts.

tforturton wrote:Just to show what you could be up against - my Syncro has been more than a week at a specialist exhaust fitters, who know and work with these vehicles. Reason for the delay? They can't get all the exhaust studs out. These are guys who do this job day in, day out, yet they're stumped by one little stud. Believe me, they can be swines to deal with. I'm fairly certain that mine have been there since day one, and have never been touched, which might explain their reluctance to come out. So if yours have been shifted a couple of times in their life, they might move a bit easier. If not, then be prepared for a difficult job.

I might just be kidding myself, but I was working on the theory that mine has had a recon engine installed in 2004.
Still got the receipt from last owner, so I know they aren't held in with 25+ yrs of road salt....

You earlier thread crossed my mind - right before I talked myself into thinking my measly 2WD probably hasn't spent so long in the mud..!!
I'm assuming yours is still putting up a fight then?
( How many studs are remaining? )

itchyfeet wrote:looks like you have an early exhaust on a late van.

Yes. It looks hanging too, so was going to go the stainless route - once I get it out.
I'm thinking if I can save of labour, then I can justify the extra cost....

kevtherev wrote:I use heat, lots of it.. on the nut, and a hex socket, it'll go with a little 'click' or it'll go easy.
ring spanner on the fiddly ones (which tend to be looser)
New steel studs from brickwerks in loose.
Stainless nuts.

changed a few of the studs for stainless bolts.

Cheers Kev.

Try unscrewing while still hot?
And I assume you mean you get them glowing red hot?

Smiffo wrote:

kevtherev wrote:I use heat, lots of it.. on the nut, and a hex socket, it'll go with a little 'click' or it'll go easy.
ring spanner on the fiddly ones (which tend to be looser)
New steel studs from brickwerks in loose.
Stainless nuts.

changed a few of the studs for stainless bolts.

Cheers Kev.

Try unscrewing while still hot?
And I assume you mean you get them glowing red hot?

cherry red, yes turn while hot

kevtherev wrote:

Smiffo wrote:

kevtherev wrote:I use heat, lots of it.. on the nut, and a hex socket, it'll go with a little 'click' or it'll go easy.
ring spanner on the fiddly ones (which tend to be looser)
New steel studs from brickwerks in loose.
Stainless nuts.

changed a few of the studs for stainless bolts.

Cheers Kev.

Try unscrewing while still hot?
And I assume you mean you get them glowing red hot?

cherry yes

I have used stainless studs with brass nuts with no issues. The engine in my van at present forced me to drill out and tap/helicoil three of the front studs cylinders 1 and 3 while still in the van. Driveshaft removal made this easier. The rear ones are more of a pig and can require silencer and tinware removal and a 90 degree drill adaptor or a small air drill to get at them. You also need quality drill bits a punch and a steady hand as you must drill right down the middle. I did a 2.5mm drill then opened it out to 6.5mm. Then used the helicoil drill and tap for an M8 thread. The problem ones are the ones that have been helicoiled before and wont come out!!! I drilled this one out with a 7 mm drill and then managed to unwind the helicoil with pliers and pull it out. I ran a tap down and inserted a nice stainless helicoil. If it is a disaster you can just about drill 8 mm or 8.5 and tap with an M10 tap. But don't go too deep. Now you will need to widen the hole in the relevant exhaust header plate to 10mm. Stainless Helicoils don't like stainless studs and can jam if you try to remove them. In the same way as I found out to my horror, don't use stainless nuts on stainless studs for the same reason. Use Brass nuts instead.

If you have to drill note depth, at least one person on here has drilled right through before...

123-jn wrote:I have used stainless studs with brass nuts with no issues. The engine in my van at present forced me to drill out and tap/helicoil three of the front studs cylinders 1 and 3 while still in the van. Driveshaft removal made this easier. The rear ones are more of a pig and can require silencer and tinware removal and a 90 degree drill adaptor or a small air drill to get at them. You also need quality drill bits a punch and a steady hand as you must drill right down the middle. I did a 2.5mm drill then opened it out to 6.5mm. Then used the helicoil drill and tap for an M8 thread. The problem ones are the ones that have been helicoiled before and wont come out!!! I drilled this one out with a 7 mm drill and then managed to unwind the helicoil with pliers and pull it out. I ran a tap down and inserted a nice stainless helicoil. If it is a disaster you can just about drill 8 mm or 8.5 and tap with an M10 tap. But don't go too deep. Now you will need to widen the hole in the relevant exhaust header plate to 10mm. Stainless Helicoils don't like stainless studs and can jam if you try to remove them. In the same way as I found out to my horror, don't use stainless nuts on stainless studs for the same reason. Use Brass nuts instead.

Did you do that without a lift to get the van in the air, JN?
Not had to do anything as drastic as that before, but I know how hard it was to move around under the van doing other bits, so getting a drill in straight ( if needed ) would seem an absolute nightmare...

If I get into that much trouble, I will have to stop and think about getting someone to have a go.
I don't want to start something that could escalate into drilling too deep, or at a skewed angle - that might make my problems 10x worse

I might be worried about nothing - they come out with me just looking at them