Club 80-90 Forums

Hi
I know there are a stack of threads about this but there's a few different symptoms/causes and I just wanted to double check the details of mine before I waste money/time. Hopefully this is a quick one either way i.e. tell me to close off the thread and read the existing info or crack on you may be into something.

So I get the usual intermittent starting. Turn the key, click, nothing happens. I went through and checked all connections, battery is good etc. If I rock the van in gear then turn the key at rest, it will fire up straight away without fail and with the installation of a new rotor arm and dizzy cap starts strong.

I'm thinking because this rocking effectively frees the starter motor this is more likely to be an issue with the bush rather than solenoid or brushes........or am I being hopeful (and mechanically hopeless) for a cheap fix?

Thanks

I reckon you have sussed it.
I used to whack mine with a hammer

The starter makes the full circuit via the short braided cable and the brushes so if they're past their best, you'll get a duff response - even at solenoid. Tap with a hammer to start (or rocking in gear) could mean a few things but pop the end off the starter and check there first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNKSeAAd3rk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Weak braid (barely contacting), worn brushes, dying solenoid - any of those. Worth noting that rocking in gear can also put the brushes in just the right place for good contact.

Ahh, doh! Thanks for the advice and video. Going to have to bite the bullet and get on with stripping it off I guess Thanks again!

CovKid wrote:Worth noting that rocking in gear can also put the brushes in just the right place for good contact.

Curious how this works as I also used to do the 'rock in gear' method when I got the 'click but no start'
How does rocking in gear have any effect on the starter if it's not engaged??
I always wondered if it just jigged the flywheel a little and meant that the starter could engage it more easily (due to worn bush maybe)???

MidLifeCrisis wrote:How does rocking in gear have any effect on the starter if it's not engaged??

Is another one of those oddities that perpetuate

Also "If you ran out of fuel you may have pulled up muck from the bottom of the tank"

Just to close this off.....hate a hanging thread

I removed the starter motor and found all the connections to be very manky, cleaned those up and changed the bush which was very worn! Hey presto, all good. It's probably the connections that was the issue as they were a mess.

Cheers

Yep, far too many potentially good starters get condemned. Sometimes a thorough clean inside is all thats needed. Carbon dust gets everywhere.

Rocking in gear has no impact on the starter but the vibration (much like tapping with a hammer) can just get the brushes in the right place if they're worn - more by luck than anything. Mind you, it doesn't solve it. Far better to take it off and inspect carefully.

Which bush did you change?

Rocking the car whilst in gear myth comes from the days when starters used to jam on the flywheel gear teeth (start to turn and then clunk), better design and tolerances seem to have dealt with the need for this. Someone must have applied this process to any starter fault without understanding what they were attempting to achieve.

It was the gearbox starter motor bush I changed. The walls were very, very thin to the point of having a crack.

I cleaned up all the external connections but didn't crack open the starter motor as I was trying to narrow down the source of the issue step by step. After refitting all seems hunky dory, for now at least so I haven't taken it any further a the moment. If I start to get issues again i'll whip of the starter motor again and take a peek inside at the brushes; in fact I may do this anyway as a matter of course when I next get time to play

Brushes are cheap too. You just need at least 100 watt soldering iron (Maplins do one for £15) - or gas one to solder them in. That and a commutator clean will often transform an old starter motor. Bearings do wear but I've not come across one that bad. Gearbox bush makes a MASSIVE difference to how the starter performs - good you changed it. Cheap to buy, often a pig to get the old one out.