Club 80-90 Forums

Hi,

I'm looking at replacing my old leisure battery on my 1990 T25 Westfalia. Do anyone knows if the stock Westfalia battery charger can handle the modern gel batteries?

I'm looking at the GEL EXIDE EQUIPMENT ES900 (replacement for the G80, advertised at Gunzl)
http://www.tayna.co.uk/Exide-ES-900-EQU ... P8512.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.vwbusshop.de/epages/GuenzlCl ... F333000233" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ollie wrote:Does anyone know if the stock Westfalia battery charger can handle the modern gel batteries?

My reply edited in view of your further research. I was wrong. I was wrong once before, 1978 it was iirc

..ok..but can the old style Westfalia charger properly regulate voltage and current that a gel battery needs?

" Some gel cell and AGM batteries may require special settings or chargers. Our units are selected for their suitability on the battery types they specify. Gel batteries generally require a specific charge profile, and a gel specific or gel selectable or gel suitable charger is called for. The peak charging voltage for Gel batteries is 14.1 or 14.4 volts, which is lower than a wet or AGM type battery needs for a full charge. Exceeding this voltage in a Gel battery can cause bubbles in the electrolyte gel, and permanent damage."

http://www.chargingchargers.com/tutorials/charging.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah, right, I have edited my post. (Note to self = gen up on Gel batteries )

As the Westy charger is pretty basic, i.e. not "intelligent" and certainly does not have a "Gel battery" setting then your caution is correct and it looks like it would not be suitable. Perhaps time to "mothball" it and wire up a modern, suitable charger then.

Thanks,

would be good to see if any of the users on this forum know of a suitable replacement for the Westfalia charger. One which can manage both the 220V and 12V system like the Westfalia charger..
I found this by the way... http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/westy ... 40854.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Taken from Batterystuff.com

GEL: The Gel Cell is similar to the AGM style because the electrolyte is suspended, but different because technically the AGM battery is still considered to be a wet cell. The electrolyte in a Gel Cell has a silica additive that causes it to set up or stiffen. The recharge voltage on this type of cell is lower than the other styles of lead acid battery. This is probably the most sensitive cell in terms of adverse reactions to over-voltage charging. Gel Batteries are best used in VERY DEEP cycle application and may last a bit longer in hot weather applications. If the incorrect battery charger is used on a Gel Cell battery poor performance and premature failure is certain.

The Westy LG BBB charger is a bit of a 'Blunt instrument' compared to the multi staged 'SMART' chargers that are available today....however, given that this will sit in the battery box and receive a great deal of its charge 'in transit' via the split charge relay and therefore, from the alternators regulator (whatever voltage that is?) this could be more of a consideration.

I'm just wondering why you are so keen on a GEL battery when there are perfectly good deep cycle leisure's available for much less money.

Martin

Ollie wrote:Thanks,

would be good to see if any of the users on this forum know of a suitable replacement for the Westfalia charger. One which can manage both the 220V and 12V system like the Westfalia charger..
I found this by the way... http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/westy ... 40854.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That threads been kicking about for some time and good as it is, would present too much of a challenge for most hobbyist electricians on here.
The solution my friend is far easier than the one suggested.

Simply fitting something like a Numax 10 amp charger directly to the starter battery but then replacing the original 'underated' 30 amp relay & wiring for a SMART relay (which switches around 13.3 volts), will result in both batteries connecting every time the mains is plugged in.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Numax-12V-10A ... 1292187828" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DURITE-0-727- ... 1138488890" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin

Thanks for the reply Martin!

I guess I thought Gel batteries were superior and lasted longer than a lead acid battery but I see your point.

Great input on the Numax charger. How would you wire this up to support the 220V outlet, and also 220v for the fridge (3 way or compressor)?
Forgive me for perhaps asking "green" questions on this theme...

Ollie

Ollie wrote:Thanks for the reply Martin!

I guess I thought Gel batteries were superior and lasted longer than a lead acid battery but I see your point.

Great input on the Numax charger. How would you wire this up to support the 220V outlet, and also 220v for the fridge (3 way or compressor)?
Forgive me for perhaps asking "green" questions on this theme...

Ollie

I can't see the dimensions of the Gunzl battery but the other is way to big anyway for an underseat VW battery box. That battery states that it is 190mm high and 353mm wide.....A VW battery box needs a low profile battery (175mm high) so the lid can shut, plus the maximum width is around 310mm.
So the question about this battery is irrelevant.

This does fit...it might not be as good quality but it does offer good capacity and deep cycle characteristics.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Volkswage ... 4897.l4275" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin

Ollie wrote:Thanks for the reply Martin!

I guess I thought Gel batteries were superior and lasted longer than a lead acid battery but I see your point.

Great input on the Numax charger. How would you wire this up to support the 220V outlet, and also 220v for the fridge (3 way or compressor)?
Forgive me for perhaps asking "green" questions on this theme...

Ollie

Your last questions sound a little confused?
A 3 way fridge runs from 230 volts (mains) so directly from your hookup cable but obviously ONLY when connected to a mains supply.
12 volts....but as the fridge draws around 8 amps at 12V, it isn't really recommended.....fine for when the vehicle is travelling though & split charge is working.
Gas....the best power supply when camping.

A numax or other charger basically runs from a mains supply....but a 230volt outlet has nothing to do with the charger, it is simply a run off from the mains hookup.

Martin

Are gel battery's safe to use with split charging,as during long runs in day time they will be charging at 14.4 for long periods.

It is difficult to say....the alternators regulator effectively see's any leisure & starter batteries as just one large battery, it regulates charge based on PD (potential difference between charge & battery voltages) The vehicles electrical consumers are also drawing from the leisure battery (because it is connected to the starter battery)
It might be charging at 14.4 volts but it is regulated and any charge amperage is shared between both batteries, so I doubt it is overcharging. The usual criticism of split charge circuits is that they often do not sufficiently charge the larger second leisure battery, so on this basis I would say you are fine.
However, I'm only ever owned one GEL battery so I am certainly no expert in their peculiarities.

Martin

Ha ha, yes I can't deny that...but not as confused as a friend of mine who was out wild camping without mains hook up.. he wondered why his 230V Waffel Iron would not work...
I found a Westy wiring diagram so things are a bit clearer now..

Thanks for taking time to answer.

BR
Ollie

TBH, I'd prioritise a charger upgrade over a high-tech battery.

Seconded. And if the battery is located in a cupboard instead, you won't be limited by the dimensions of the designated battery boxes. I found you often strike a bargain that way as the size of the battery won't then be an issue.