Club 80-90 Forums

18 months in with my Golf 2.0l GTI 8v AGG conversion.

It's been a dream in general use, returning good mpg, power and reliability....but it isn't such a great story offroad.

I've probably only used the van off the beaten track 3 times and on each occasion the clutch has heated up quickly and smelled for a while.

*I fitted a replacement Borg & Beck just before Busfest 2013 and while we completed the course (195/80R15MT tyres) the clutch didn't like it much.
*Then this year in August I drove the van over Pensard Beach, North Wales. As soon as any effort was required the clutch started smelling.
*Finally at Busfest 2014 we attempted the trail once more. This time we had a different interior setup (lighter) but 3 passengers and a full tank of fuel. We were running the 235/70R16AT tyres. The clutch heated up rapidly and by the time we reached the final obstacle (the hole) it really wasn't having it. Two failed attempts later the bellhousing breathers were chucking out smoke like the Devils nostrils and we have to be extracted by a Doka.


Even failures are worth remembering. A Syncro at this angle is photogenic and smoke is cool, right?

As embarrassing as some may have found being towed out, I was more annoyed with the van. It didn't ruin my weekend but I spent the rest of it thinking over the reasons.

I NEED it to be usable - otherwise I may as well have a 2WD. The fact that a Split bus (admittedly spiritedly driven, rocked and bounced) and a pretty stock Kombi T3 with skinny tyres managed to get around before me compounded my mood. I left the trail determined to fix this once and for all.

In retrospect, at the time of the conversion people recommended I fit a JX 215mm clutch. My past experience had me thinking this was on the small side (having owned lighter performance Golfs with 228mm clutches) but I went with accepted knowledge. Before the conversion I had a look at how a combination of a large rolling radius wheel/tyre combo, petrol syncro ratios and the AGG might work. Nobody could provide much by way of concrete information so in the end I bit the bullet and got on with it.

Since that I have gone through a Sachs HD and a Borg & Beck clutch. Both times were under load, on steep inclines and for short periods. I don't ride the clutch (in fact its a pet hate of mine) so this is downright annoying.

So where am I at?

Well the van is still drivable. I came home from Busfest at a steady 65mph with some slipping. I've also done the there and back to Back to Basics without issue but the clutch is now ready for replacement.

I'm running 235/70R16AT tyres, petrol ratios and the AGG (stock, 115bhp). Discussion with other Syncro owners at Busfest suggested that the AGG torque curve and peak delivery, longer gearing and larger rolling radius might be too much for a 215mm clutch. Perhaps not in normal operation but at peak torque under load and used in anger, possibly.

Now a gear ratio change and drivetrain swap isn't on the cards - I simply don't have the funds right now However, a tougher clutch and smaller rolling radius wheel and tyre setup is achievable. I'm not so attached to my 16" boots that I can't take a step down to protect my van and enjoy it properly.

With regards to the clutch I've read the 1.9/2.1 WBX petrols used a 228mm clutch (same theory as any well powered petrol?) and even Bays had the larger clutch. I've been told about VR6, TDI, 2.1 combination but no firm details. Is there a known combination of parts that would meet the task?

I'd welcome any input on the matter right now. My van is a lame duck until I get this sorted and I really want to go out with confidence and get some proper green laning and offroad time in it. Part of that has to be me learning the best way to drive the van of course but having confidence in the drivetrain is crucial.

Is there any reason you can't fit the 1Z flywheel and clutch set up?

I think it requires more than the flywheel and clutch (starter, starter adapter, input shaft etc) but its a possibility I am looking into.

You'd need a input shaft and a new sh!t plate. I have a flywheel here that has had the clearances done so the jx starter can be used.

TBH I don't recall which starter is fitted so I will have to check but I might be interested in the flywheel Lloyd.

Pm me with details.

I have a brand new still in box VR6 pressure plate surplus to requirements if you are interested.

Duncan.

Surely G60 FW, VR6 PP, WBX FP, is the simplest fix ? All cheap and readily available.

E D I T: PS. I was just glad your van didn't explode there was that much fuel vapour around !

I've been told I need a starter motor spacer/adapter. Is this only when using the TDI flywheel?

Andy, it was pretty smoky wasn't it! I think you're right about that combination. It's what I would use on a high performance Golf, just not sure on space/distances in a van.

have you checked whether the clutch is actually being fully released ?

Yes, the clutch was working fine, before and after with full travel at the box. I'm tending towards a full TDI clutch and Lloyd's flywheel now.

228mm has to be the way, with a lower rolling radius to help put the power down with less stress on it.

WBX FP and input shaft will be fine, yeah if you're feeling flush go for the TDI-spline input shaft but it really isn't necessary. Audi used the 'early' (WBX) spline on their big-power quattro's until the early 90's. If you're stuck for a FP I have a good used one here, and the other guys on this thread have the other bits you need. Just bolt it on and consider it done. JX starter will do fine.

And a late syncro TD Bellhousing a worthwhile upgrade too as designed to keep the 215mm clutch from early demise in 4wd bus in extremis

Is the root of this problem simply a case of overloading and overgearing? The tyres sound massive to me. What diff ratios are fitted?

silverbullet wrote:Is the root of this problem simply a case of overloading and overgearing? The tyres sound massive to me. What diff ratios are fitted?

A 2.1 petrol AAN box/AAH diff combo - so a 4.86 final drive.

Less "revs" will help....just chug...bigger flywheel holds more inertia.