Club 80-90 Forums

Help please

Recent non-starting issues....Batery replaced by AA. Calcium 096 fitted.

Everywhere I am reading that it requires 15V or more to charge properly. Raised with the AA who are adamant its the right one for the van.

I want some reliability. My alternator puts out about 13.8 V if I remember correctly.

E D I T - need to check this. 13.8 could be too low

The only reason I am concerned is that it did several short hops on Sunday...and then didn't want to start.

I would like to eliminate battery from the equation

thanks

With my recent starting problems (turned out to be alternator connection came loose in engine bay ) my starting and leisure batteries were at about 11.5v and van started fine. Guessing it was low as they hadn't been getting any charge throughout the week.

Batteries read 13.8 with engine running so i guess that's what my alternator is putting out too if that helps

Cheers Tysoe!

Glad you got your lazy starting sorted.

I was doing really well until sunday afternoon, when after a couple of shorter journeys it gave me flat battery symptoms agian

so....Really think its new starter time

Oh well.

Bit reluctant to change it to be honest. Not sure that I have the stamina to cope with "reliable" starting....lol

Yes calcium batteries are ok, they don't need any higher voltages to fully charge, but they can tolerate higher voltage charges for more rapid charging. You can look at it different ways if you have an older 13.8V charging system you don't really need a calcuim battery, but there are not many batteries on sale now that are not calcium, or you can now uprate your voltage reg to a 14.2V one and enjoy the benefit.
Silver calcium batteries will still work as well, but are really OTT for our vehicles and not worth paying a premium for them.

Thanks bighuerb. Is there any issue with upgrading to the 14.2 system? Seen the link to the regulator on ebay from another post. its only a couple more quid than the ususal one...and I am happy to try it.

thanks muchly - I am somewhat re-assured.

Emma

ermie571 wrote:Thanks bighuerb. Is there any issue with upgrading to the 14.2 system?

Emma

No issues, it is a worthwhile upgrade if you can take advantage of it and particularly useful if you have a starter battery as a leisure battery.

ermie571 wrote:I want some reliability. My alternator puts out about 13.8 V if I remember correctly.

E D I T - need to check this. 13.8 could be too low

Where are you measuring this? At the battery terminals? It's entirely possible/likely that you've got some serious voltage drop in the charging circuit.

Mine used to read 13.8v at the battery with a 14v regulator, a 14.5v pushed it up to 14.3v. It was even worse before I remade the terminals as I had a 0.5v drop due to corrosion in crimped terminals.

bigherb wrote:

ermie571 wrote:Thanks bighuerb. Is there any issue with upgrading to the 14.2 system?

Emma

No issues, it is a worthwhile upgrade if you can take advantage of it and particularly useful if you have a starter battery as a leisure battery.

Battery charging works on potential difference 'PD' the difference between the battery voltage and the charge voltage (the closer the battery gets to full, the slower the rate of charging). So in practice, a flattish battery may reach '50%' charge in a matter of 10-15 minutes...take another 30 minutes to reach 75%, a further 40 minutes to reach 90% needing a further hour to hit fully charged 100%.

These figures are just an example but you can see what I am getting at...the closer you get to full charge the slower the rate of charging. So...when an old 14 volt regulator 'with less than perfect wiring' is used to charge one of these newer type batteries, that 'charge CURVE' makes it very difficult to 'fully charge' the battery on all but the longest of journey's.
Most modern cars use slightly higher regulated alternators which better suit these newer battery chemistry's.

Calcium batteries are better in most ways when compared to older lead/acid types, my only gripe is that they pretty much all come sealed and so cannot be maintained. The upside is that they don't actually use much water (5 X times less) but that still means they will eventually dry out especially if used hard.

Martin

Martin

Thanks all.

I am going to try the higher voltage regulator.

Em
xx

I'd check all the connections and voltage drop first. For an hour of cleaning and checking, and zero cost, you'll get about the same result - with the knowledge that you can change to the higher voltage VR later, if still needed. Other bonuses will include better starting.

Working my way through that Adrian.


contacts all done.
Starter motor out and contacts cleaned, and lubricant applied
Already better starting
New main cable waiting to go on...just not got round to it yet

I was more concerned about the not charging properly issue.

Thanks for the help

Em
x

ermie571 wrote:I was more concerned about the not charging properly issue.

It's the same issue, just a different symptom.

Voltage - "electric pressure" - gets lost through all the poor connections, just as water pressure gets lost by leaking through poor connections. Improving those connections, and reducing that voltage drop, is why your starting's already improved and - if you were measuring the charging voltage at the battery - why I'd expect your 13.8v is now north of that, and probably nearer what it'd be if you measured it at the alternator.

Putting a higher voltage VR on will put more out the alternator, so will give you more at the other end, but you'll still be losing some in the middle. Just as turning the tap on a leaky hose will get more out the other end, but you'll still lose some on the way. Fixing the holes in the hose means you don't need to turn the tap up, to get more out the other end.

The starter and alternator use pretty much the same connections...

Battery +ve -> Big thick +ve cable -> Starter -> Alternator.
Battery -ve -> Main earth cable -> Body -> Engine/box earth cable -> Starter/Alternator.

As an indication of the voltage losses that can occur - mine was losing 0.5v from the alternator to the battery due to corrosion in the crimps - that is in only around a foot of cable and two connections. Add that to the voltage drop over the length of the petrol cable you could be looking at 0.75v so your battery is never going to have a chance of full charge.

cheers....you've made my day......


lol

thanks again

Em
xx